I thought this was extremely interesting...

[Jaybird1980]

The comments... did you read the comments?
We are screwed.

Oh, crap. I went to look, thinking it was just going to be the usual anti-gun nonsense, but then to see people in there actually trying to justify the murder... Holy Smokes.

Yep, mental health is the real crisis in this country. Respect needs to be relearned in the world

We are lost.

 

[Lpherr]

Yep, mental health is the real crisis in this country. Respect needs to be relearned in the world

We are lost.

I think mental health is just a broad spectrum excuse for inexcusable actions.
With as many of these people that keep popping up, it's obvious they've been taught this ideology.
People are being taught evil, and that it's acceptable. With this being deemed acceptable, more people are resorting to it,
knowing there either aren't consequences, or they're minimal. A murderer gets probation, yet standing inside the Capitol results in a six year prison sentence.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Yep, mental health is the real crisis in this country. Respect needs to be relearned in the world

We are lost.

Agreed. Respect for others, respect for property, and especially SELF respect.

 

[Bugzilla]

I remember when this happened and told Mrs Bugs that we get mad at our neighbors when they beat us to plowing in front of our mailboxes. Kind of a challenge as to who can plow their driveway first then plow in front the 5 mailboxes. We are out on a country road.

 

[Bugzilla]

The key statement in the article: The 22lr is effective at ending most violent altercations but is not effective in causing incapacitating wounds.
Isn’t that the purpose of conceal carry, to stop the altercation?

Is the 22lr Lethal? How Deadly is it? | Gun Tradition

The 22lr. is my favorite and most used caliber in both pistols and rifles. As always, I’ve researched it to see just what the little…

guntradition.com

 

[patience0830]

You`re certainly entitled to your opinion, and you`re also certainly not obligated to use the .22 LR as a carry round/gun. Mossad likes them, and that`s plenty good enough for me.

Mossad uses them for a specific purpose at close range for clandestine wet work. Possibly 60 grain subs with a high twist bbl. They still carry a heavier weapon for "oh ****! Gotta stop this attack NOW" And they are highly trained in self defense and martial art of one variety or another.

Just because they use it doesn't mean it's wise to depend on it to stop an attack.

 

[Bigtanker]

Ok. Let's get back to the subject at hand. Posts have been removed. Any further issues and
....... well you know.

 

[Twangbanger]

The key statement in the article: The 22lr is effective at ending most violent altercations but is not effective in causing incapacitating wounds.
Isn’t that the purpose of conceal carry, to stop the altercation?

Is the 22lr Lethal? How Deadly is it? | Gun Tradition

The 22lr. is my favorite and most used caliber in both pistols and rifles. As always, I’ve researched it to see just what the little…

guntradition.com

It depends whether the person intends to "altercate" with you, or kill you. Not everyone is "in their right mind."

That a .22 is effective in deterring rational people, is pretty weak praise. Most assailants turn into "track stars" when confronted by a gun. When they don't turn into "track stars," that is when caliber matters. And it happens every single day.

I'm surprised how often the European "wound them in the leg" concept continues to appear, in one form or another.

 

[Trapper Jim]

Since someone will eventually ask the question, I'll ask it now...

Does an aggressor know if he has been shot with a 22, 32, 380, 9mm, or something bigger?

And does an aggressor always continue an attack, or do they say "oh crap, that lady just shot me" and try to retreat?

I understand there is no one size fits all, and we can all agree that we should train with what we carry. But there is a reality that some people, often women, will not practice with a small center-fire handgun. Not taking sides, just an observation.

Injury allows discussion on damage assessment. There is only one level of death.

 

[DadSmith]

Mossad uses them for a specific purpose at close range for clandestine wet work. Possibly 60 grain subs with a high twist bbl. They still carry a heavier weapon for "oh ****! Gotta stop this attack NOW" And they are highly trained in self defense and martial art of one variety or another.

Just because they use it doesn't mean it's wise to depend on it to stop an attack.

Israelis are definitely well trained, and they go for head shots when able and heart shots if not. They are marksman with their pistols.
I've tested 22lr 40gr from my TX22 and the bullets almost penetrate 1.5" of pine. That's a lot thicker than my forehead or anyone else's. Also shots around the eyes and nose are very deadly. If sideways the ear, and just above the ear is also very deadly. To hit those areas in extreme stress takes a lot of training.

 

[tackdriver]

The key statement in the article: The 22lr is effective at ending most violent altercations but is not effective in causing incapacitating wounds.
Isn’t that the purpose of conceal carry, to stop the altercation?

Is the 22lr Lethal? How Deadly is it? | Gun Tradition

The 22lr. is my favorite and most used caliber in both pistols and rifles. As always, I’ve researched it to see just what the little…

guntradition.com

For some maybe. For me, the purpose is for me (and those with me) to get home safe and healthy. Second prize is that I come home crippled, blind, or disfigured for life. Along with second prize, the winner also gets all the pain and medical bills that goes with the main prize. Third prize, I don't come home at all. I don't need to play again, but my family has to deal with it.

With this in mind, I will stack the deck as much in my favor as I can, within reason. Slinging up an AR and putting on body armor to go to the store is not reasonable for me. However, a reasonably sized, reliable pistol in effective cartridge is. I personally can't see a reason to diminish my odds, in any amount, with less leathal, unproven ammo.

Looking at it another way, what is the upside to using a 22LR? Are the cops and the courts going to treat you differently because you were involved in a shooting with it, vs a 9mm? Am I getting increased capacity, given the rim?

If I Knew that a man was going to break into my daughters apartment, intent on raping, robing, and possibly killing her, would I consider giving her a .22LR with this new Federal ammo, or something more "traditional" if both were at hand?

Maybe there's a place in the market for this. Maybe one of those Zippo lighter .22's or such. I'm always in favor of more options, but I have to really try to find a good enough reason for this one.

 

[cosermann]

I've seen a number of tests on the new Fed .22 Punch load and they all seem to show it penetrates pretty well for a .22 LR (compared to more "traditional" loads). Kind of surprised me being a light for caliber bullet weight. Normally, I'd, expect heavier for caliber bullets to penetrate better (generally, all else being equal - which it often isn't).

Not sure if it's the nickel plating on the bullet, the powder, or a combo, but Federal seems to have met their goal of improving penetration of the .22lr from handguns.

That's NOT to say .22lr is a great manstopper, but if one is looking for more penetration from a .22 handgun, seems like it's worth a look. Different loads for different purposes.

 

[DadSmith]

40gr Super Extra. Ruger SR22 avg penetration 13-14"

 

[Leo]

In my mind, the "shoot an armed attacker in the leg" means that I will be shot in the chest by a criminal who limps.

That is like getting your butt kicked by an old man, no earned respect for you.

 

[snapping turtle]

Federal does some amazing things with rimfire ammo. Federal lighting shoots lights out in my Buckmark Silly Wet pistol and the game loads I hunt with it are federal also. (Game shock I believe) less accurate but work better on tree rats.

Federal makes 50 grain 22 magnum rounds that shoot very well in my 9422 and a single six handgun of my fathers. Knock down fox and coyotes pretty well. Perfectly suited for fox hunting. That said the marlin bolt action 22 mag does not like the 50 grain bullets and does well with the 40 grain loads.

Still when you look at what I would carry in a situation where I knew I was going to be in a gun fight or a good possibility of such a 223/556 is going to be the minimum.. the PCC and lesser guns not going to happen.

A handgun is for fighting your way to a rifle is what I have always believed. A 10/22 has it’s place just not in a gunfight. Forget a little pistol shooting 22.

 

[Rosenbah]

The Mrs carries a small Beretta 22. If this feeds, it'll be good for her carry. I let you know how it works. Since she's carrying a small arm, might as well get something that is better than most.

 

[Kernelkrink]

If you punch holes in the boiler, or het the heart, it really doesn`t matter what caliber the hole is, they expire quickly eh?

For what it`s worth, I agree with the "4" philosophy, I`m a .45 acp guy. Yet still, lesser caliber sidearms kill many everyday. Israeli Mossad has shown that.

One can die from a bullet wound, sometimes pretty quick and other times it may take the infection a week or more to do the deed. In self defense scenarios, which unless you have a "license to kill" is about the only time you will be shooting at people, you want to stop their aggression. That is the only goal, whether or not they die is a concern for later after you have survived. Farmers kill cows with a .22 all the time, they go for a brain shot and walk right up to the cow since it has no idea it is about to become steaks. Mossad and other clandestine agencies that practice assassination as a sanctioned activity choose the .22 for it's ease of suppression with smaller equipment. And like the cow, their target is usually unaware they are going to be receiving a bit of lead to the head until it is too late. The .22 is adequate for that mission, which is not self defense.

It's a little harder when that bull is enraged and trying to stomp you into paste.

There are only 2 ways of physically stopping a person with a handgun wound. 1, disconnect their brain from their body by hitting the spinal cord high up on the chest or above, or directly into the brain to damage it beyond where it can sustain a fight. 2, cause enough blood loss or damage to the heart/circulatory system to deprive the brain of oxygen long enough (up to 15 seconds in tests) for it to shut down. Almost all other instances where the person shot immediately ceases his aggression are from the pain or psychological "I've been shot!" reasons. These can be overridden with drugs, mental illness, or just plain old anger. OTOH, the vast majority of self defense use of a gun, simply pulling it results in the other guy deciding he has a pressing appointment elsewhere.

Once you get above a certain threshold, say .38 special or 9mm, until you get into the magnum hand cannons most premium self defense rounds perform similarly. This is to be expected as they are all trying to meet the FBI standards. A larger bullet may expand the "close enough" area you have to hit for a quick stop, but at the cost of usually more recoil and less ammo on board.

Federal is trying to get a .22 from a short bbl to penetrate enough to meet the FBI standard. It will do less damage than the larger calibers, obviously, but is likely better than the more common rounds in that caliber. Definitely better than harsh language. This would be ideal in one of the mini-revolvers that fit in a watch pocket for deep concealed carry or backup. And some do carry a .22 because it's all they have or can handle due to a handicap or just being frail. My Mother in her 80s went from a .38 to a .22 due to declining health and strength. The new load is another option for those who carry a .22.

 

[Eric94]

Federal Ammunition has introduced a 29 grain .22 LR round designed for personal protection. Has this already been covered here? I think this is extremely interesting, and it`s really, really piqued my interest in a .22 pistol for carry perhaps...

Buy Personal Defense Punch Rimfire for USD 11.99 | Federal Ammunition

Shopping for the Personal Defense Punch Rimfire - Learn more about the latest Personal Defense Punch Rimfire and other hunting or shooting gear at Federal Ammunition.

www.federalpremium.com

Very interesting indeed, but for me .380 is my minimum carry caliber.
Unless you are looking into carrying a North American Arms micro revolver in. 22, I don't think it would be worth it.
A LCP max is tiny and in a more effective caliber.
The only reason I could think of carrying a .22 is if you are extremely recoil sensitive.

 

[Tombs]

I have no doubts a 22lr will kill someone... eventually.

The issue is, as just a guy wanting to protect himself, I don't see much use for that. I need something that disables the CNS, breaks bones, and physically stops the threat right now. 22lr has a very poor track record for delivering desirable results in that realm.

If you're recoil sensitive, get a larger heavier steel frame 9mm.

 

[ShimmeringTrees]

The capacity of the human mind, to create its own reality, select evidence to fit that reality, and convince itself of that which it wants to believe, is incredible.

Should be a famous quote by, insert, "real name."

I really came here to see if 22 is worth carrying for self-defense. Still wondering the same thing. Boo