Is it really "us-vs-them?"

[KG1]

It is a rather unfortunate time for America. The laws are worse than ever, and we keep electing the same type of control freaks year after year. People are not pleased with any branch of government. The checks and balances in the system are collapsing. Public opinion of police officers is sinking as the absurdity of the laws increases, and the injustice of the system becomes more and more obvious. I'm not saying its right, its just what I see.

We have every reason to be worried about the future. Government is running off the rails. We need passionate activists to keep government under control. We also need good public servants to uphold their oaths and stand against the machine when necessary. We can't afford to be asleep right now. We need watchdogs to expose bad laws and bad public servants. Information is a powerful tool.

I post a lot of stories looking for government accountability. The reactions that it has brought me range from amusing to disturbing. I've been accused of wanting to see piles of dead cops. That disturbed me a little bit. If I post a story that involves police overstepping their bounds, it should not be taken to impugn anyone who was not involved in the story. Bad cops and bad laws need to be exposed, period. I don't think any reasonable person would disagree with that.

With that, I have 3 things to say.

1. We would all do well to stop generalizing large groups for the actions of a few. If you discuss a story about police brutality, remember that the only guilty parties are the people who participated, and often times the superiors who cover up their crimes. This extends to other discussions about races, religions, groups of protesters, things like "The Left" and "The Right", etc. Call out the individuals and stop generalizing.

2. We would all do well to stop thinking of ourselves as part of a collective. You are an individual. You are accountable for your own actions and your own decisions. You deserve individual praise and individual criticism. The orders you are given don't reflect you until you follow them. You aren't responsible for actions of your peers. You aren't compelled to defend people just because you share the same profession.

3. I think it is dangerous to allow yourself to let your profession become your identity. That thinking subsequently causes a person to take everything personally that people say about that profession and/or other members. I believe this is why some people irrationally defend bad members, and irrationally attack critics.

Just played catch up in this thread. Spot on rambone. That is all.

 

[j706]

Group hug? J706, even you can join the hug

SWEET!! I feel special now.

 

[UncleMike]

What have you done to defend and further the rights of firearms owners in Indiana?


What have you done to defend and further the rights of firearms owners in Indiana?



So, what have YOU done recently to advance the cause of firearms ownership? I hesitate to mention it because it is not required, but you don't even financially support this site.

Since you obviously haven't bothered to do any investigation before asking the ignorant questions above....
I'll just leave this here.
https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...endment/274399-e_mail_to_fop.html#post3896042
All I've done for "The Firearms Cause" this week is **** off the National President of The FOP...
But don't let that FACT get in the way of your agenda.
As I stated before..
Mr Alinsky would be very proud of you.
I won't be wasting any of your, or my, time in the future.
You've been added to my ever growing list of ignored members.
Again have a nice day...

 

[qwerty]

So to sum it up.....

There was an entire thread devoted to the violation of rights by local law enforcement. The OP ended up being a Federal Employee of the TSA.

Then there is this thread complaining about local law enforcement and their abuse of power...The OP is a Senior Engineer of a company that is so poorly run that unless the Federal Government stepped in, it would have gone totally under. Without the Federal Government taking taxpayer money, there would be no Government Motors, thus making GM employees de facto Federal Employees. UAW Federal Employees that have no problem toking and drinking on their lunch breaks.

So, in the case of abuse of powers (us-vs-them), it is situational ethics....profit over principle, or hypocrisy.

 

[griffin]

I look at the list of incidents on the original post and say that's not very many considering the number of LEOs putting in a considerable number of man hours on patrol or duty.

This is true. But every day there are many LEOs who are arrested or imprisoned for breaking the law or being corrupt. Some things are more easily searchable/found on the internet than others. Those aren't all, but multiply that times 26 for a year. Then multiply that by four or five years. It starts adding up.

Is every LEO corrupt? No. But how many are, or how many are simply not to be trusted? How many just enjoy "jamming" you up because they can?

Okay, instead of just picking some LEOs here and there across the US, how about entire departments? How many small departments have been dissolved because of corruption (not finances)? New Rome, OH; Waynesburg, OH; New Sterling, OH; okay, forget about Ohio. LOL. There were some down South as I recall. But they were small. What about large PDs?

Here is the DOJ Report detailing the corruption of the entire New Orleans PD.

Or how about the entire New Jersey State Police? Most of them were conspiring against the citizens of the state, and when outed by two honest NJ troopers, they were publicly threatened (on television!) by the president of the NJSP Union. The local radio personalities that broadcast their plans were also publicly threatened, as well as their families. Cops that are supposed to "protect" citizens were threatening them.

These are just two examples. When you have wholesale corruption of entire police departments, don't tell me that it's just a few rogue cops here and there who take bribes and make false arrests. The problem is widespread, endemic, and documented.

 

[CathyInBlue]

 

[public servant]

This is true. But every day there are many LEOs who are arrested or imprisoned for breaking the law or being corrupt. Some things are more easily searchable/found on the internet than others. Those aren't all, but multiply that times 26 for a year. Then multiply that by four or five years. It starts adding up.

Is every LEO corrupt? No. But how many are, or how many are simply not to be trusted? How many just enjoy "jamming" you up because they can?

Okay, instead of just picking some LEOs here and there across the US, how about entire departments? How many small departments have been dissolved because of corruption (not finances)? New Rome, OH; Waynesburg, OH; New Sterling, OH; okay, forget about Ohio. LOL. There were some down South as I recall. But they were small. What about large PDs?

Here is the DOJ Report detailing the corruption of the entire New Orleans PD.

Or how about the entire New Jersey State Police? Most of them were conspiring against the citizens of the state, and when outed by two honest NJ troopers, they were publicly threatened (on television!) by the president of the NJSP Union. The local radio personalities that broadcast their plans were also publicly threatened, as well as their families. Cops that are supposed to "protect" citizens were threatening them.

These are just two examples. When you have wholesale corruption of entire police departments, don't tell me that it's just a few rogue cops here and there who take bribes and make false arrests. The problem is widespread, endemic, and documented.

So what would be your answer to resolve issues like these?

 

[j706]

This is true. But every day there are many LEOs who are arrested or imprisoned for breaking the law or being corrupt. Some things are more easily searchable/found on the internet than others. Those aren't all, but multiply that times 26 for a year. Then multiply that by four or five years. It starts adding up.

Is every LEO corrupt? No. But how many are, or how many are simply not to be trusted? How many just enjoy "jamming" you up because they can?

Okay, instead of just picking some LEOs here and there across the US, how about entire departments? How many small departments have been dissolved because of corruption (not finances)? New Rome, OH; Waynesburg, OH; New Sterling, OH; okay, forget about Ohio. LOL. There were some down South as I recall. But they were small. What about large PDs?

Here is the DOJ Report detailing the corruption of the entire New Orleans PD.

Or how about the entire New Jersey State Police? Most of them were conspiring against the citizens of the state, and when outed by two honest NJ troopers, they were publicly threatened (on television!) by the president of the NJSP Union. The local radio personalities that broadcast their plans were also publicly threatened, as well as their families. Cops that are supposed to "protect" citizens were threatening them.

These are just two examples. When you have wholesale corruption of entire police departments, don't tell me that it's just a few rogue cops here and there who take bribes and make false arrests. The problem is widespread, endemic, and documented.

BS!!!

 

[griffin]

BS!!!

BS? It's all documented. It's history.

 

[Hohn]

This is true. But every day there are many LEOs who are arrested or imprisoned for breaking the law or being corrupt. Some things are more easily searchable/found on the internet than others. Those aren't all, but multiply that times 26 for a year. Then multiply that by four or five years. It starts adding up.

Is every LEO corrupt? No. But how many are, or how many are simply not to be trusted? How many just enjoy "jamming" you up because they can?

Okay, instead of just picking some LEOs here and there across the US, how about entire departments? How many small departments have been dissolved because of corruption (not finances)? New Rome, OH; Waynesburg, OH; New Sterling, OH; okay, forget about Ohio. LOL. There were some down South as I recall. But they were small. What about large PDs?

Here is the DOJ Report detailing the corruption of the entire New Orleans PD.

Or how about the entire New Jersey State Police? Most of them were conspiring against the citizens of the state, and when outed by two honest NJ troopers, they were publicly threatened (on television!) by the president of the NJSP Union. The local radio personalities that broadcast their plans were also publicly threatened, as well as their families. Cops that are supposed to "protect" citizens were threatening them.

These are just two examples. When you have wholesale corruption of entire police departments, don't tell me that it's just a few rogue cops here and there who take bribes and make false arrests. The problem is widespread, endemic, and documented.

So where's the report documenting the corruption in the entire DOJ??

 

[griffin]

So where's the report documenting the corruption in the entire DOJ??

Rep inbound for this!

 

[griffin]

So what would be your answer to resolve issues like these?

First LEOs deny widespread corruption exists, then they want solutions. Nice.

Okay. First, abolish the thin blue line. Other LEOs must stop excusing or covering up for other officers when they do wrong. Yeah, maybe you wouldn't cover up for a LEO who murdered an innocent civilian on the Danziger bridge, but what about the routine, day-to-day things? The mistreatment of innocent citizens? Stop using the excuse that "you don't know what it's like to have our job." If you don't want the job, quit and do something else. Go back to school if you have to.

Second, the police administrations have to stop defending abusive and illegal behavior. We know why they do it, because they want to limit their legal and financial liabilities. They'll deny their officers violated a citizen's rights and they'll fight in court if necessary. First they'll stonewall, trying to exhaust the plaintiff's financial resources, and then they might try to settle for a pittance if the plaintiff won't go away. That is our government attempting to use its financial and legal leverage against the honest and innocent citizen, not for the honest and innocent citizen.

Third, the police administrations have to be willing to discipline and fire LEOs who abuse their power, and buck the corrupt unions. In a previous case I mentioned, the NJSP wasn't even going to discipline any troopers or the union president who publicly threatened people until public outrage became so great they had to. But the union president getting "a few days off" was a tiny price to pay for being reelected to his six-figure job. And no discipline was meted out to the troopers who were conspiring against the populace.

Fourth, the unions have to be willing to accept the discipline of LEOs who abuse their power. Why should Harless have won his job back?

I could go on, but for starters if these things were done I think LEOs would be much less likely to abuse their position.

 

[mike8170]

So where's the report documenting the corruption in the entire DOJ??

Remember, the White House used executive privilege during Fast and Furious, so that Congress would not get the documentation. Evidently it has worked, since Holder and others that should now be in prison are still in positions of power.

 

[Liberty1911]

Seems like this was an abuse of police and prosecutorial power. Any LEO's want to comment?

Jury finds Hurt not guilty of murder, robbery of homeless man » Evansville Courier & Press

 

[qwerty]

Seems like this was an abuse of police and prosecutorial power. Any LEO's want to comment?

Jury finds Hurt not guilty of murder, robbery of homeless man » Evansville Courier & Press

"During the trial, police testified that they found no evidence to prove Hurt’s confession." Sounds like the prosecutor ran with what they had. Most of the time in cases like this, you take what evidence you have and the prosecutor determines whether to file. They have their own agenda sometimes, so it would be interesting to find why they decided to pursue when there was no evidence. Sometimes you have a serious crime with not to much to go on, but if the Prosecutor thinks it may have teeth, they just go with it.

I had Drizin for a class at Northwestern, he would fit in here with many on this forum. Not sure I would consider him an expert witness, but he seemed to think pretty highly of himself. He mostly taught a lot of opinion and complaining about bad interviews, and never taught how to do do a good interview. Lucky it was just for about half a semester to cover juvenile justice.

 

[AtTheMurph]

It never ceases to amaze me that people tend to think that one's profession or job is indicative of how they will behave. They're just men..

Those who fail to read history are bound to repeat it.

Good men have committed the most heinous crimes in history only to claim later that they didn't know or that they were only following orders.

 

[EvilBlackGun]

Federal Case-Law against the cop would be a good first step.

Making the INDIVIDUAL COP responsible for paying monetarily for his mis-deeds. Pay Cop fines out of public funds is not justifiable. Take it from the cop first and then his union. Cop behavior would soon improve, I think.

So what would be your answer to resolve issues like these?

 

[zippy23]

I've always been intrigued by the situation where a cop is killed in the line of duty(which is obviously horrible). It seems the entire media and the entire force are out doing everything they possibly can to get this guy, and they almost ALWAYS do. It seems that kind of passion to find the killer is not found when its the average citizen, obviously not there in the projects. I will unions never favor the "customer" or end user. corruption is always a problem in unions, no oversight, money for votes, etc. It only takes a few instances for the people to think badly of an organization so sometimes they get bad raps. but a lot of times they are getting the rap they deserve. who knows, but we call them when we need help and they do come out.

 

[Sfrandolph]

Yes it is us versus the govt. and that won't ever change.