Is it really "us-vs-them?"

[Survivalcookie]

Cops are people...there are good ones and there are bad ones...I have seen a lot more good than bad. Just think of how long that list would be if we added fire fighters, politicians, military, teachers and every other career to it.

 

[griffin]

Im in charge of hiring people

Given your post, I doubt you. Or possibly you are very, very drunk.

No one here is talking about things as mundane as traffic tickets. Who cares about those? I certainly don't. We are talking about real police abuse of power. The fact that you won't acknowledge it exists is worrying.

How would you like to lose your job or security clearance because of a false DUI charge? This Utah Highway Patrol officer falsely arrested people for years, and not only did it cost them their jobs, or nearly cost them their jobs, it cost them thousands of dollars to defend themselves. It got so bad the courts refused to prosecute her cases. Now six years of arrests for this "Officer of the Year" are in question.

Anyway, as for the us-vs-them, read officer.com and tell me who perpetuates that attitude. One of the LEOs here--I think it is Frank-N-Stein--says he refuses to read that police website, or policeone.com. Even he acknowledges how bad cops are.

 

[griffin]

I can't find one co-worker that trusts, listens to, or respects our administration. Many in admin positions were never good cops to begin with

That certainly makes me feel all warm and fuzzy about law enforcement.

 

[Liberty1911]

That certainly makes me feel all warm and fuzzy about law enforcement.

I noticed that statement too. He basically said the average street cop is a good guy, but the people actually running the department can't be trusted.

Wow.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Anyway, as for the us-vs-them, read officer.com and tell me who perpetuates that attitude. One of the LEOs here--I think it is Frank-N-Stein--says he refuses to read that police website, or policeone.com. Even he acknowledges how bad cops are.

You misquote me. I said I don't participate in the us vs. them attitude. If you are going to call me out, get it right.

 

[griffin]

You misquote me. I said I don't participate in the us vs. them attitude. If you are going to call me out, get it right.

I apologize. I was sure you said you refuse to read or participate at officer.com or policeone.com because of the cops who post there. Did I misremember?

I was surprised because one would think a police officer would want to participate in a police officer forum.

 

[j706]

I hesitate to mention this since it doesn't apply here in Indiana, but in other states this is not so rare. Michigan, for example, and there are legal reasons for using drop-leg holsters. In Indiana, not so much. But I do mention it to expand your thinking on open carry.

I wouldn't do it if it was common. I don't even wear one as a LEO working nights where other guys sometimes do. And yes I have one. But is use is for a few very limited number of reasons.

 

[j706]

That statement bothers me a little bit. There are plenty of people who run around doing things I think is bizarre, but as long as it's legal, I don't see why the police would have a problem.

Because they were no doubt sent on a crazy man with a gun call. Carrying groceries no less.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I apologize. I was sure you said you refuse to read or participate at officer.com or policeone.com because of the cops who post there. Did I misremember?

I was surprised because one would think a police officer would want to participate in a police officer forum.

I read posts on both sites and occasionally post on Officer.com but I don't jump on the bandwagon of anti-civilian sentiment. Something funny about INGO and LE-related websites is that its always the same ones making the posts, either anti-LE or anti-civilian, and the other members are guilty by association even if they don't feel the same way.

 

[j706]

I noticed that statement too. He basically said the average street cop is a good guy, but the people actually running the department can't be trusted.

Wow.

I agree with him 100%. The admin might set the policy ect but it is the street cop that makes the decisions that effect you and your every day life. The average citizen never has any contact or even see the admin types. A very large percent of admin types are just as described. They tend to be suck ups, mess ups and people that have no common sense and have never been good at the most important part of policing. For what ever reason that is just the way it is with a large percentage of them.

 

[UncleMike]

I apologize. I was sure you said you refuse to read or participate at officer.com or policeone.com because of the cops who post there. Did I misremember?

I was surprised because one would think a police officer would want to participate in a police officer forum.

Uhhhh.............
Why in the **** don't you stay away from those "evil" forums??
Or do you just like to keep the pot stirred like Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson?
The divide and conquer strategy works very well for them and the current Administration so perhaps it'll work toward your agenda as well.
Mr Alinsky would be very proud of you..

 

[qwerty]

Because they were no doubt sent on a crazy man with a gun call. Carrying groceries no less.

They probably heard he was a TSA agent and just wanted to be prepared.

 

[griffin]

Why in the **** don't you stay away from those "evil" forums?

Why do you think officer.com and policeone.com are evil?

 

[UncleMike]

Why do you think officer.com and policeone.com are evil?

Nice try...
Like I said....
Mr. Alinsky would be very proud of you.
BTW.....
I've gone back through several hundreds of your posts and I can't for the life of me find any reference to your owning firearms.
Virtually ALL of your posts are *****ing posts about "authority" figures.
Even your first post profiles a rally in your state of Michigan accompanied by pics taken by "some guy" who attended the event and not your first hand report on the rally.
For someone who may, or may not, be a member of the Firearms Community you sure take your opinions here seriously.
After all this is INDIANA GUN OWNERS Forums.
I have my doubts about your intentions for being here but since I'm just another one of the GUN OWNING Members I'll just have to put up with your nonsense.
Have a nice day...

 

[50BMG Steve]

My 2 cents, Most people are good people. LEOs are people. Their occupation puts them in dangerous situations, seeing and dealing with the dregs of our nation. I'm glad that I don't have that job and sorry that it needs doing. Bad LEOs are out there but I'm glad most of them are good people. I've been stopped several times in my life and always been treated well. Thanks.

 

[griffin]

I've gone back through several hundreds of your posts and I can't for the life of me find any reference to your owning firearms.

I think you might have missed some posts, but what do you want to know? My current carry is an FNH Five-seveN. My BUG is either another FNH Five-seveN carried weak side or a CC'd Kahr K40. If not carrying the 5.7, my secondary carry is often a Para 7.45 LDA .45 ACP. My SD ammo for the 5.7 is T6, and I load HST for the .45ACP and .40S&W carries (although I still have some original Black Talon, too).

I OC daily (or almost daily).

I guess you could say that I am involved in the open carry movement in as much as I write and edit a state-wide open carry newsletter. My organization has been sued by a municipal organization, and we won at the State Court of Appeals level. They are currently appealing to the Supreme Court of the State of Michigan. Twelve other municipal organizations banded together and just filed an amicus curiae brief to the Michigan Supreme Court against us a few days ago. (You know what that is, right?)

We will fight this and win. Again.

These municipal organizations have thus far spent in excess of $90,000 in taxpayer money (not counting the recent Supreme Court amicus curiae brief which probably cost in the neighborhood of $10K). I know this because I filed FOIA demands and received all the attorney billings.

I have personally contributed hundreds of dollars and hundreds of man-hours to defend and further the rights of firearms owners in my state in the past year alone. I have testified in public meetings. I have written 2A essays. What have you done to defend and further the rights of firearms owners in Indiana?

In addition, I monitor new legislative bills and try to affect their outcomes. But even before this, I (personally) try to influence bills before they are even introduced (dropped). As an organization, we actually are a part of crafting new bills. (And fighting with--er, against--our Republican governor in closed door private meetings along with legislative leaders). As an individual, I am personally working on crafting another new firearms bill. It will probably take three sessions (six years) to get this to pass.

What have you done to defend and further the rights of firearms owners in Indiana?

Virtually ALL of your posts are *****ing posts about "authority" figures.

Incorrect.

Even your first post profiles a rally in your state of Michigan accompanied by pics taken by "some guy" who attended the event and not your first hand report on the rally.

If you are talking about Sean Combs who was falsely arrested by three Birmingham, MI Keystone Kops, no, I didn't attend the rally across the state. I am not always in the state. I just flew in from Kansas City yesterday, and I will be traveling to Kentucky for two months beginning next Monday. (And I will be OCing and hopefully shooting there). And it was posted by others here first, I just added to it since I had firsthand knowledge. There were several threads. But since you bring that up, the judge threw out one charge right away and the jury found him not guilty of the other two within minutes. The police (including one senior level shift commander) were shown to be imbeciles who didn't know the law and were power-hungry fruit-loops who thought "contempt of cop" was an arrestable offense. It's pretty bad when an 18 year-old kid can set an entire police department on its heels. He is now suing the department for a 1983 violation. (You know what that is, right? 42 U.S.C. § 1983). He tried being nice, but the cops didn't want to be nice.

For someone who may, or may, not be a member of the Firearms Community you sure take your opinions here seriously.

In addition to my carry weapons (and a few other pistols), I have an old Bushmaster A3, a new Colt 6940, an HK91, and an M1A. Not to mention a 1953 Browning A5. And enough ammunition to start a small Central American war.

After all this is INDIANA GUN OWNERS Forums.
I have my doubts about your intentions for being here

I have stated my reasons for being here, but I will restate them again for you.

I was born and raised in Hammond, Indiana. I attended Morton and Hammond Tech and Purdue, West Lafayette. I lived in Hammond, Highland, and Griffith before moving to Michigan. I still have many relatives and friends in Indiana, and I travel to Indiana frequently. I always open carry when in Indiana and I have never had any problems. Sometimes work even carries me to Indiana, but not often.

So, what have YOU done recently to advance the cause of firearms ownership? I hesitate to mention it because it is not required, but you don't even financially support this site.

 

[Mosinguy]

I think you might have missed some posts, but what do you want to know? My current carry is an FNH Five-seveN. My BUG is either another FNH Five-seveN carried weak side or a CC'd Kahr K40. If not carrying the 5.7, my secondary carry is often a Para 7.45 LDA .45 ACP. My SD ammo for the 5.7 is T6, and I load HST for the .45ACP and .40S&W carries (although I still have some original Black Talon, too).

I OC daily (or almost daily).

I guess you could say that I am involved in the open carry movement in as much as I write and edit a state-wide open carry newsletter. My organization has been sued by a municipal organization, and we won at the State Court of Appeals level. They are currently appealing to the Supreme Court of the State of Michigan. Twelve other municipal organizations banded together and just filed an amicus curiae brief to the Michigan Supreme Court against us a few days ago. (You know what that is, right?)

We will fight this and win. Again.

These municipal organizations have thus far spent in excess of $90,000 in taxpayer money (not counting the recent Supreme Court amicus curiae brief which probably cost in the neighborhood of $10K). I know this because I filed FOIA demands and received all the attorney billings.

I have personally contributed hundreds of dollars and many man-hours to defend the rights of firearms owners in my state. What have you done to defend the rights of firearms owners in Indiana?

In addition, I monitor new legislative bills and try to affect their outcomes. But even before this, I (personally) try to influence bills before they are even introduced (dropped). As an organization, we actually are a part of crafting new bills. (And fighting with--er, against--our Republican governor in closed door private meetings along with legislative leaders). As an individual, I am personally working on crafting another new firearms bill. It will probably take three sessions (six years) to get this to pass.

I have personally contributed hundreds man-hours to defend and further the rights of firearms owners in my state. I have testified in public meetings. What have you done to defend and further the rights of firearms owners in Indiana?

Incorrect.

If you are talking about Sean Combs who was falsely arrested by three Birmingham, MI Keystone Kops, no, I didn't attend the rally across the state. I am not always in the state. I just flew in from Kansas City yesterday, and I will be traveling to Kentucky for two months beginning next Monday. (And I will be OCing and hopefully shooting there). And it was posted by others here first, I just added to it since I had firsthand knowledge. There were several threads. But since you bring that up, the judge threw out one charge right away and the jury found him not guilty of the other two within minutes. The police (including one senior level shift commander) were shown to be imbeciles who didn't know the law and were power-hungry fruit-loops who thought "contempt of cop" was an arrestable offense. It's pretty bad when an 18 year-old kid can set an entire police department on its heels. He is now suing the department for a 1983 violation. (You know what that is, right? 42 U.S.C. § 1983). He tried being nice, but the cops didn't want to be nice.
In addition to my carry weapons (and a few other pistols), I have an old Bushmaster A3, a new Colt 6940, an HK91, and an M1A. Not to mention a 1953 Browning A5.
I have stated my reasons for being here, but I will restate them again for you.

I was born and raised in Hammond, Indiana. I attended Morton and Hammond Tech and Purdue, West Lafayette. I lived in Hammond, Highland, and Griffith before moving to Michigan. I still have many relatives and friends in Indiana, and I travel to Indiana frequently. I always open carry when in Indiana and I have never had any problems. Sometimes work even carries me to Indiana, but not often.

So, what have YOU done recently to advance the cause of firearms ownership? I hesitate to mention it because it is not required, but you don't even financially support this site.

burn.

 

[j706]

I think you might have missed some posts, but what do you want to know? My current carry is an FNH Five-seveN. My BUG is either another FNH Five-seveN carried weak side or a CC'd Kahr K40. If not carrying the 5.7, my secondary carry is often a Para 7.45 LDA .45 ACP. My SD ammo for the 5.7 is T6, and I load HST for the .45ACP and .40S&W carries (although I still have some original Black Talon, too).

I OC daily (or almost daily).

I guess you could say that I am involved in the open carry movement in as much as I write and edit a state-wide open carry newsletter. My organization has been sued by a municipal organization, and we won at the State Court of Appeals level. They are currently appealing to the Supreme Court of the State of Michigan. Twelve other municipal organizations banded together and just filed an amicus curiae brief to the Michigan Supreme Court against us a few days ago. (You know what that is, right?)

We will fight this and win. Again.

These municipal organizations have thus far spent in excess of $90,000 in taxpayer money (not counting the recent Supreme Court amicus curiae brief which probably cost in the neighborhood of $10K). I know this because I filed FOIA demands and received all the attorney billings.

I have personally contributed hundreds of dollars and hundreds of man-hours to defend and further the rights of firearms owners in my state. I have testified in public meetings. What have you done to defend and further the rights of firearms owners in Indiana?

In addition, I monitor new legislative bills and try to affect their outcomes. But even before this, I (personally) try to influence bills before they are even introduced (dropped). As an organization, we actually are a part of crafting new bills. (And fighting with--er, against--our Republican governor in closed door private meetings along with legislative leaders). As an individual, I am personally working on crafting another new firearms bill. It will probably take three sessions (six years) to get this to pass.

What have you done to defend and further the rights of firearms owners in Indiana?

Incorrect.

If you are talking about Sean Combs who was falsely arrested by three Birmingham, MI Keystone Kops, no, I didn't attend the rally across the state. I am not always in the state. I just flew in from Kansas City yesterday, and I will be traveling to Kentucky for two months beginning next Monday. (And I will be OCing and hopefully shooting there). And it was posted by others here first, I just added to it since I had firsthand knowledge. There were several threads. But since you bring that up, the judge threw out one charge right away and the jury found him not guilty of the other two within minutes. The police (including one senior level shift commander) were shown to be imbeciles who didn't know the law and were power-hungry fruit-loops who thought "contempt of cop" was an arrestable offense. It's pretty bad when an 18 year-old kid can set an entire police department on its heels. He is now suing the department for a 1983 violation. (You know what that is, right? 42 U.S.C. § 1983). He tried being nice, but the cops didn't want to be nice.
In addition to my carry weapons (and a few other pistols), I have an old Bushmaster A3, a new Colt 6940, an HK91, and an M1A. Not to mention a 1953 Browning A5. And enough ammunition to start a small Central American war.
I have stated my reasons for being here, but I will restate them again for you.

I was born and raised in Hammond, Indiana. I attended Morton and Hammond Tech and Purdue, West Lafayette. I lived in Hammond, Highland, and Griffith before moving to Michigan. I still have many relatives and friends in Indiana, and I travel to Indiana frequently. I always open carry when in Indiana and I have never had any problems. Sometimes work even carries me to Indiana, but not often.

So, what have YOU done recently to advance the cause of firearms ownership? I hesitate to mention it because it is not required, but you don't even financially support this site.

Dude are seriously questioning unclemike on what he has done for us pro second guys? Really? A guy that spent his whole life defending those that couldn't or wouldn't defend themselves! Do you really think by reading any of unclemikes post's that he is antigun? With the well known fact established that he is in fact NO WAY antigun and given his life's worth of policing do you really think he has done NOTHING in the way of promoting pro 2nd rights and mentality and ect? Do you really think that when he went to work he just turned off his true beliefs? I think not.

I have never met unclemike in person that I know of. I happen to like the way he thinks and I have a ton of respect for what he says, his opinions and his contribution to society. So in short that makes him my friend. If I ever do meet him I know I will like him. He is also a well respected member of this site. Whether he is a site supporter or not is actually a cheap shot IMO. He always thinks the same way and always shows his common sense.

 

[qwerty]

Dude are seriously questioning unclemike on what he has done for us pro second guys? Really? A guy that spent his whole life defending those that couldn't or wouldn't defend themselves! Do you really think by reading any of unclemikes post's that he is antigun? With the well known fact established that he is in fact NO WAY antigun and given his life's worth of policing do you really think he has done NOTHING in the way of promoting pro 2nd rights and mentality and ect? Do you really think that when he went to work he just turned off his true beliefs? I think not.

I have never met unclemike in person that I know of. I happen to like the way he thinks and I have a ton of respect for what he says, his opinions and his contribution to society. So in short that makes him my friend. If I ever do meet him I know I will like him. He is also a well respected member of this site. Whether he is a site supporter or not is actually a cheap shot IMO. He always thinks the same way and always shows his common sense.

And with unclemike, it didn't take a year or 1700 post to find out if he owned a firearm.

 

[griffin]

Dude are seriously questioning unclemike on what he has done for us pro second guys? Really?

Absolutely.

For starters, he cast doubt on the fact that I even had any positive involvement with firearms ownership or rights.

What has he done to advance firearms ownership and firearms rights in Indiana?

A guy that spent his whole life defending those that couldn't or wouldn't defend themselves!

Wait, could he be like the other LEOs who have spent their entire lives in law enforcement? The ones Denny and even you talked about just an hour or two ago?

Denny: "I can't find one co-worker that trusts, listens to, or respects our administration. Many in admin positions were never good cops to begin with."

j706: "I agree with him 100%. The admin might set the policy ect but it is the street cop that makes the decisions that effect you and your every day life. A very large percent of admin types are just as described. They tend to be suck ups, mess ups and people that have no common sense and have never been good at the most important part of policing. For what ever reason that is just the way it is with a large percentage of them."​

These are LEOs, like you. They have probably been LEOs all their professional careers, like you. They used to be street cops, like you. There are more street cops like them, like you.

Yet I am supposed to automatically assume they are good and decent and honest and competent? Even when you don't? Not a chance. You both admit that bad caps are not fired but promoted. Don't worry, you are not the first to tell me that. I hear the same thing from other police, including Detroit police.

So how are we, the citizens of these United States, supposed to react to police who are substandard and incompetent because we KNOW they won't be fired?

given his life's worth of policing do you really think he has done NOTHING in the way of promoting pro 2nd rights and mentality and ect?

Correct.

Whether he is a site supporter or not is actually a cheap shot IMO.

RIF. I said I hesitated to mention it. Being a site supporter is not mandatory, but it is the height of hypocrisy to question another's motives who clearly has the best interests of 2A at heart who has not exhibited even a modicum of dedication to 2A himself.