John Moses Browning: limited by technology?

[KJQ6945]

Well, that is my reason for existing, to annoy you.

And that’s the exact thing I would say if I posed a misleading situation to support my point of view.

Please look at your poll numbers, after all you posted it, surreptitiously at that. Again I ask, ”what was your intention ?” It may be that you are just plain mistaken, I don’t know. At this point I don’t care. Please feel free to put me on your ignore list, that way we will both be better off. Again have a good weekend.

WTF dude? It’s way to early to be as drunk as you must be. And, welcome to the internet.

 

[Mij]

WTF dude? It’s way to early to be as drunk as you must be. And, welcome to the internet.

Thanks, sober as a church mouse.

WTF???

dude???

Another kid trying to be a grown up from his keyboard.

 

[KJQ6945]

Thanks, sober as a church mouse.

WTF???

dude???

Another kid trying to be a grown up from his keyboard.

You caught me grandpa.

 

[TJ Kackowski]

So glad I read through this thread ... got to add another person to my ignore list ... yes, that is you @Mij ... well done, nobody has yet been added to my ignore list without first personally pissing me off ... but, just reading your tripe has turned me off of anything you have to say on INGO ... kudos and good bye

 

[Tombs]

JMB would whittle his ideals out of wood to design testing prototypes of his actions.

There's not a huge difference between then and today when it comes to firearms designs. At the end of the day the big difference is in manufacturing, not the concepts.

I'm sure he had a lot of ideals that were not viable in his time because nobody could manufacture them profitably. I wouldn't say he was limited by technology with that though. I think the correct answer to the poll is going to be a matter of opinion on if manufacturing capability is a technological limitation or not.

 

[KJQ6945]

I have not looked at the previous thread. I don’t know who is on which side, nor do I care.
I know that TF is a stand up guy. We could disagree about something and still be civil.

@Mij, let it go. It’s the interwebz. It has no bearing on anything in the real world. There is no, “I won an argument on the internet award.”

JMB was a true genius. If he was inventing a gun, he generally invented a caliber for it, or vice versa. Could modern tech have enabled him further? Without a doubt. Did he need it? Obviously not.

 

[Mij]

So glad I read through this thread ... got to add another person to my ignore list ... yes, that is you @Mij ... well done, nobody has yet been added to my ignore list without first personally pissing me off ... but, just reading your tripe has turned me off of anything you have to say on INGO ... kudos and good bye

@TJ Kackowski

 

[Kdf101]

Interesting thread….

I agree with what was said upthread. The most amazing thing to me is that people like him designed and built things with pencil, paper, and slide rule. Then used manual mills etc to build them. Same with cars, trains, planes, jets, heck even the 1960’s
space program. He and the people li,e him were smart. I bet they didn’t have DEI and diversity classes in his school room.

 

[actaeon277]

can we perhaps have a thread where someone isn't stirring the sht?
or getting banned?

 

[Mij]

Interesting thread….

I agree with what was said upthread. The most amazing thing to me is that people like him designed and built things with pencil, paper, and slide rule. Then used manual mills etc to build them. Same with cars, trains, planes, jets, heck even the 1960’s
space program. He and the people li,e him were smart. I bet they didn’t have DEI and diversity classes in his school room.

Great reply to a confusing thread. That’s one of the reasons I became an INGO member. The ability to have civil discussions with civil discourse. (Some just don’t get it).

In all of American industry the hobbyist or tinker’ers have been a driving force. As you stated the builders of the past have always been the drivers of innovation. You gave some examples, I say look at radio, auto, and rocketry, just to name a few. Plus the ones you mentioned.

I won’t lower myself to the personal attacks I’ve read in this thread, but I will say I’ve learned a lot about INGO from my foray into the GFD sub for. To those that think I have nothing to offer or are defending there peers my best to them, Have a great weekend, from an old fudd

 

[Mij]

can we perhaps have a thread where someone isn't stirring the sht?
or getting banned?

No…..

 

[DadSmith]

My opinion on this poll is Bacon!

 

[russc2542]

Maybe his imagination wasn't limited by technology but metallurgy and manufacturing methods certainly played into his designs which would limit the products of his imagination. Look at what guys are doing with CAD and 3d printers and all JMB had was pencil, paper, slide rule, mill, and lathe.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Maybe his imagination wasn't limited by technology but metallurgy and manufacturing methods certainly played into his designs which would limit the products of his imagination. Look at what guys are doing with CAD and 3d printers and all JMB had was pencil, paper, slide rule, mill, and lathe.

How many of those 3d printed designs will still be around in 100 years? I have two Browning designs that were manufactured over 100 years ago and still function as designed. You have to take into account our throwaway economy vs the "make it once, make it last" ways os the turn of the 20th century.

 

[penguinship]

While long lasting isn't a bad thing, it doesn't inherently make something better. A bow and arrow or wheel isn't the pinnacle of technology, despite having been used for thousands of years.

 

[russc2542]

How many of those 3d printed designs will still be around in 100 years? I have two Browning designs that were manufactured over 100 years ago and still function as designed. You have to take into account our throwaway economy vs the "make it once, make it last" ways os the turn of the 20th century.

You're thinking of what someone can do at home for $300, to which I counter look at what I can do at home for $300!! I'm not belittling anything he did, just pointing out that browning designed for the manufacturing processes available at the time which are far more limited than what's available now. Browning had what, manual 2 axis mills and lathes. 6+ axis CNC mills are mainstream now. Metal 3d printing is mainstream for suppressors. Laser sintering is already matching casting for density and strength with a lot wider range of metals and alloys available. The printers coming out now 10x more capable (speed, strength, overhang tolerance, etc) than the 5 year old metal printer they have where I work.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

While long lasting isn't a bad thing, it doesn't inherently make something better. A bow and arrow or wheel isn't the pinnacle of technology, despite having been used for thousands of years.

A reporter once asked Ferdinand Porsche what the perfect racecar would be like. Porsche thought for a moment and said,

The perfect racecar would qualify in first place, lead every lap, finish in first and upon crossing the finish line immediately fall to pieces. Anything more would simply be overbuilt for the task. -paraphrased of course

I never made a claim that Browning's designs were the pinnacle of technology, nor did I say they would never be surpassed. In fact my point about the 100 year old guns was to demonstrate the longevity of the design itself despite being limited to 1920's metallurgy.

 

[penguinship]

He absolutely had good designs, but longevity isn't the only criteria in a good product. Just as with your race car example, the liberator pistol only really needed to work once to do its job.

I suppose it's hard to debate "better" without defining it first

 

[armalitesheepdog]

Definitely Bacon

 

[Bluedragon]

This is just my opinion so take it how you will....

I would say Browning wasn't limited to his time with technology because when he designed the Hi Power he kept it as a single action despite guns like the PP and P38 series by Walther introducing the da/sa concept.