Karate

[1861navy]

Yeah, I learned a lot sparring against all of the Adamsons. You learn to not leave yourself open very quickly. It amazes me when I watch MMA and compare it to watching high level black belts. MMA seems very sloppy to me and I feel that someone like Herb Johnson or Doug Adamson would likely school most of those guys very quickly.

Oh yes, the Adamson's would definitely school most of those guys quickly. I studied under the Adamson's for four years, Ryan Adamson was a really good spar. To the video in OP, WTH is that? No fluidity, no balance, improper posture, poor stance, utter lack of parrying or blocking, crappy footwork and somehow resembles drunken square dancing.

 

[churchmouse]

When I trained (oh so long ago) I would have had my A$$ handed to me sparing like that.

 

[iChokePeople]

Yeah, I learned a lot sparring against all of the Adamsons. You learn to not leave yourself open very quickly. It amazes me when I watch MMA and compare it to watching high level black belts. MMA seems very sloppy to me and I feel that someone like Herb Johnson or Doug Adamson would likely school most of those guys very quickly.

Oh yes, the Adamson's would definitely school most of those guys quickly. I studied under the Adamson's for four years, Ryan Adamson was a really good spar. To the video in OP, WTH is that? No fluidity, no balance, improper posture, poor stance, utter lack of parrying or blocking, crappy footwork and somehow resembles drunken square dancing.

 

[cedartop]

Agreed, but I didn't want to go down that road.

 

[squidvt]

I'm not familiar with that style, but it looks very sloppy. What's with all the stomping around? I studied Shorei Goju Ryu for 10+ years and one of the most basic things we taught even the little kids in the white belt classes was to keep their hands up when kicking.

I was about to say it was very sloppy as well. They had little control from what I saw. They were short on every strike and had not power.

I also noticed they were all wearing light weight Gi's and none of them seemed to be fitting properly.

My Sensei would never let me check anything off past Orange belt that was 1/2 as sloppy as that.

Chezuki, where is your Dojo. I'm also Studying Shorei Goju Ryu.

 

[Scutter01]

Is Phil Morgan also one of Herb Johnson's OKS lineage?


Sheesh! This is bringing back a lot of memories.

No kidding! I know both of those guys but haven't heard their names in ages. I used to fight their students in the PKC tournament circuit.

I used to know Glen Keeney reasonably well (on a professional level, not personal). At least, I thought I did. We bumped into him in Tennessee a couple of months ago when he was scouting a site to hold a regional tournament and he didn't recognize us at all.

 

[rhino]

Yeah, I learned a lot sparring against all of the Adamsons. You learn to not leave yourself open very quickly. It amazes me when I watch MMA and compare it to watching high level black belts. MMA seems very sloppy to me and I feel that someone like Herb Johnson or Doug Adamson would likely school most of those guys very quickly.

Yeah, probably not.

You're comparing apples and oranges. Sparring with a partner who knows "how" to attack and defend looks a lot prettier than two guys trying to hurt each other, regardless of the skill level. With all due respect to Herb, in his prime he would not have done well in MMA, unless you're talking about the local level guys. I saw him knock out Sam Nichols back in the 70s in a tournament with a backfist, but I also saw him sparring with Bill Wallace after Wallace was well retired and going about half speed. It wasn't pretty.

Some of the local martial arts guys have tried to play MMA with varying degrees of success. I'm no expert on MMA (in fact I'm not even a fan of such sports), but from my outsider's perception, it looks like the best preparation for MMA is wrestling in high school and especially college.

Oh yes, the Adamson's would definitely school most of those guys quickly. I studied under the Adamson's for four years, Ryan Adamson was a really good spar. To the video in OP, WTH is that? No fluidity, no balance, improper posture, poor stance, utter lack of parrying or blocking, crappy footwork and somehow resembles drunken square dancing.

If you're talking about the rubes in the video, absolutely. If you're talking about MMA fighters at the level of UFC, no way.

No kidding! I know both of those guys but haven't heard their names in ages. I used to fight their students in the PKC tournament circuit.

I used to know Glen Keeney reasonably well (on a professional level, not personal). At least, I thought I did. We bumped into him in Tennessee a couple of months ago when he was scouting a site to hold a regional tournament and he didn't recognize us at all.

Indeed! My last tournaments would have been in 1981 or maybe 1982 at the latest, which was when USKA dominated Indiana (which is natural due to the Robert Trias connection) and AKA dominated Illinois. PKA either didn't exist or wasn't in our area then.

I'm surprised that none of those guys recognize me when I bump into them. I can see not knowing my name from Adam, but I do have a distinctive appearance and I look a hell of a lot like I did back then. I'm a little taller and leaner, but that's about it.

I still remember a lot of their names, but I'm not sure how many of them I would recognize after so long!

 

[iChokePeople]

...but from my outsider's perception, it looks like the best preparation for MMA is wrestling in high school and especially college.

That's a pretty accurate statement. Certainly room for some debate, but I'd agree that a solid wrestling pedigree is the best base for a successful MMA experience.

 

[sig1473]

That's a pretty accurate statement. Certainly room for some debate, but I'd agree that a solid wrestling pedigree is the best base for a successful MMA experience.

Agreed. Wrestling definitely helps. I've seen belts handed out pretty easily when I took Hapkido @ IU. I just laughed when a black-belt female tried to arm-bar me when I was an orange belt. She finally gave up and we both just laughed.

 

[singlesix]

More for your viewing pleasure.

[video=youtube;vVlzfB4ubrk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVlzfB4ubrk[/video]

 

[Scutter01]

Indeed! My last tournaments would have been in 1981 or maybe 1982 at the latest, which was when USKA dominated Indiana (which is natural due to the Robert Trias connection) and AKA dominated Illinois. PKA either didn't exist or wasn't in our area then.

USKA is almost nonexistent in Indiana now. Spasmo and I fought in a couple USKA matches, but we had to go to Pennsylvania to do it and that was barely 10 years ago. Mr. Keeney sold off PKC and it was broken down into separately managed regions, but that was after I quit the tournament circuit so I have no idea how it's doing these days.

 

[iChokePeople]

Agreed, but I didn't want to go down that road.

I didn't either, but sometimes I just. can't. stop. myself.

 

[wtfd661]

Maybe from the same Dojo???

[video=youtube_share;_kRb06w_XPo]http://youtu.be/_kRb06w_XPo[/video]

 

[rhino]

I didn't either, but sometimes I just. can't. stop. myself.

I did it for you, a little anyway.

USKA is almost nonexistent in Indiana now. Spasmo and I fought in a couple USKA matches, but we had to go to Pennsylvania to do it and that was barely 10 years ago. Mr. Keeney sold off PKC and it was broken down into separately managed regions, but that was after I quit the tournament circuit so I have no idea how it's doing these days.

Time changes . . . just about everything!

I remember that one of the objections I had to a certain black belt test (to which I never submitted myself) was that part of it was explaining the meaning of the USKA logo/patch. Even at my young age, I thought the equivalent of "WTF?" They were an organization that sponsored most of the tournaments, but I was not a member and I couldn't see a valid reason why that would be part of the test. That and running three miles before it started. Yeah, I can sit at home and watch television instead.

 

[Scutter01]

I remember that one of the objections I had to a certain black belt test (to which I never submitted myself) was that part of it was explaining the meaning of the USKA logo/patch. Even at my young age, I thought the equivalent of "WTF?" They were an organization that sponsored most of the tournaments, but I was not a member and I couldn't see a valid reason why that would be part of the test. That and running three miles before it started. Yeah, I can sit at home and watch television instead.

I've seen quite a few belt factories. Mine wasn't one, thankfully. Part of our black belt test (which was usually after at least 5-6 years, if then) involved an hour or more of dissertation deconstructing kata to explain the how and the why for each movement. I have a lot more respect for that than describing the patch. Our "explain the patch" bit was for the white belts to graduate to a yellow belt.

It's important to find a dojo for which the black belt is not the end of your training but the beginning. The only thing a black belt means is that you have a basic understanding of movement and you're not likely to fall over. NOW you're ready to start learning karate.

 

[rhino]

I've seen quite a few belt factories. Mine wasn't one, thankfully. Part of our black belt test (which was usually after at least 5-6 years, if then) involved an hour or more of dissertation deconstructing kata to explain the how and the why for each movement. I have a lot more respect for that than describing the patch. Our "explain the patch" bit was for the white belts to graduate to a yellow belt.

Bunkai! Spent a lot of time with that back then too. I'm sure that and plenty of other valid and valuable elements were part of that test as well, but I was stubborn (like I'm not now). There is no way I would describe that particular school (you're familiar with it and our mutual friend is intrinsically connected to it) as a belt factory (at least back then, no knowledge now), but the infusion of extraneous and unnecessary political pandering ruined it for me. I'm sounding like sour grapes now, which is not my intent, nor do I wish to imply that I would have even passed that test.

In retrospect, I don't really see much value in a specific test. Whomever is evaluating you during that hour (or six) can do a much better job of evaluating you over a few years while you practice and train. It's just an academic interest at this point, though.

Getting back to the videos ... after seeing the head guy go at it with his students, it's really obvious why they all perform the movements the way they do. They're all mimicking an example who displays poor body mechanics on virtually every technique and movement. I would conjecture that the main instructor learned by similarly mimicking someone else, but never understanding how to actually position and move his own body in order to execute the movements with even rudimentary mastery. That's not uncommon, unfortunately, but it's certainly obvious enough to be noteworthy when you see video evidence.

 

[GBuck]

So, as often happens late at night... this thread caused me to go on a youtube binge.... I now know two things.. This man is insane, and has more control over his body than I could ever dream to.

[video=youtube;rG-RALKfn7Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rG-RALKfn7Y[/video]

 

[Scutter01]

In retrospect, I don't really see much value in a specific test. Whomever is evaluating you during that hour (or six) can do a much better job of evaluating you over a few years while you practice and train. It's just an academic interest at this point, though.

The whole belt ranking system is completely ridiculous to begin with. It only serves to give measurable progress to kids so that they don't get discouraged and quit. I'd prefer to go back to the system of having a white belt until it becomes black from wear and use.

Also:
You don't go ninja'in nobody don't need ninja'in.

[video=youtube;_j1-xQA_ufE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j1-xQA_ufE[/video]

 

[nakinate]

I see what you're saying about wrestling and MMA. I guess what I meant was that until it goes to the ground, I'd like a Karate master's chances. I can't stand to watch MMA. Too much of guys humping each other on the ground.

 

[iChokePeople]

I can't stand to watch MMA. Too much of guys humping each other on the ground.

The ground game is kind of a Rorschach test.