KISS AR vs. Tacticool

[Dirc]

I thought you meant an AR with pictures of Gene Simmons, Peter Criss, Paul Stanly and Ace Frehley on it.

Rock and roll all night, and party every day.

 

[mvician]

nvr thought of the larger sight picture with iron sights. you could be engaging a target with your red dot and never see the other target 15 ft. to his left or right.... hmm

If you are using your red dot correctly with both eyes open you never "see" the housing itself, only the red dot on the target. That is why you mount a red dot farther out on the upper than you would a traditional magnified scope.

 

[Cerberus]

If you are using your red dot correctly with both eyes open you never "see" the housing itself, only the red dot on the target. That is why you mount a red dot farther out on the upper than you would a traditional magnified scope.

+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

 

[obijohn]

Use this as your threshold question: does this solve a problem for me?

This. KISS IS tacticool. lightest weight possible. Add a light and possibly an optic of some description and you are done.

Had a student in a recent class that had a seriously badass AR. Spent the whole day *****ing about how heavy it was...

 

[esrice]

IMO the "KISS rifle" concept has become an excuse for cheap AR owners to justify why they didn't set up their carbine to be as efficient and effective as possible.

Quality red dots allow you to engage a target faster, shoot with both eyes open using a single aiming point, and are way more forgiving in awkward positions.

A white light allows you to identify and engage your target in the dark.

A sling allows you to manipulate your weapon efficiently, and keeps it retained when you are doing things other than shooting.

Most other mods come down to personal preference. I like the rubber buttpad and QD sockets of the CTR stock. I like having a VFG has an index point and support for my offhand. I like the recoil reducing qualities of a comp. I like the enhanced control and comfort of a MOE grip.

The "tacticool rifle" concept is found when an AR owner wants to outfit it with enhancements, but they lack the direction and financing to make the right choices. So they end up with a rifle loaded down with cheap gun show parts and accessories that actually make the gun less effective and efficient.

I just realized that outfitting an AR is much like the story of Goldilocks and the 3 Bears.

 

[superjoe76]

Its all moot to me! KISS is where we all start. Then you add this, then you add that. Before you know it, bam, you went tacti-cool.

I started a similar thread a while back and basically learned: That if its something you will actually use, then its fine. If its something you just had to have just for the sake of having it, then its tact-cool.

 

[Cerberus]

Start with a quality AR. Add only what is needed to run the thing at peak efficiency, ie RDS, light, quality sling. You don't need a bipod, or a monpod or a big honking heavy taclight or all the other ninja stuff.

The concept of the KISS carbine is one set up with as little possible junk on it that can break. If an AR can't handle rough handling it should not be considered a KISS setup.

 

[halfmileharry]

If you are using your red dot correctly with both eyes open you never "see" the housing itself, only the red dot on the target. That is why you mount a red dot farther out on the upper than you would a traditional magnified scope.

I'll try setting mine up again. Maybe my set up was wrong. It was my first RD so very possible I messed up the set up. It wouldn't be the first time I screwed up.
I always shoot both eyes open btw.
I liked the fast target acquisition but I did have an issue with the field of vision.

 

[jblomenberg16]

KISS in my opinion for an AR15 that I may use for defense includes

white light

AimPoint

sling

The mission drives the gear train.

If all your AR does is sit in the corner and sees only 500 rounds in a year not an afternoon, then maybe KISS for you means iron sights only.

If your AR rides duty with you everyday, then the white light, AimPoint and sling would be the bare minimum or KISS.

Tacticool in my opinion includes every piece of cheap gun show garbage that you could imagine hanging from a cheap rifle.

+1000

 

[jblomenberg16]

IMO the "KISS rifle" concept has become an excuse for cheap AR owners to justify why they didn't set up their carbine to be as efficient and effective as possible.

Quality red dots allow you to engage a target faster, shoot with both eyes open using a single aiming point, and are way more forgiving in awkward positions.

A white light allows you to identify and engage your target in the dark.

A sling allows you to manipulate your weapon efficiently, and keeps it retained when you are doing things other than shooting.

Most other mods come down to personal preference. I like the rubber buttpad and QD sockets of the CTR stock. I like having a VFG has an index point and support for my offhand. I like the recoil reducing qualities of a comp. I like the enhanced control and comfort of a MOE grip.

The "tacticool rifle" concept is found when an AR owner wants to outfit it with enhancements, but they lack the direction and financing to make the right choices. So they end up with a rifle loaded down with cheap gun show parts and accessories that actually make the gun less effective and efficient.

I just realized that outfitting an AR is much like the story of Goldilocks and the 3 Bears.

+1000 to this too. KISS doesn't mean cheap and non-fuctional. KISS means it does what it needs to do, with no extra bells a whistles that are there just for looks.

 

[Reno_Morris]

Well I'm new to AR's but I did have an AK that went from practical to
tacticool very quickly. It was so heavy you could hardly carry the thing.
Now that I have gotten rid of it and have my AR now it is staying simple.
Everything is stock at the moment. I'm going to put a holographic sight for
sure then maybe a sling and white light. The other stuff just ends up
weighing it down and making it hard to handle.

 

[irishfan]

It took me having my AR out a whole day while moving, crouching, and other movements to make the decision to go away from a lot of garbage. I never noticed it in short range trips and just handling it a little. Every person will have to decide for theirself what is acceptable and what is not.

 

[teddy12b]

It's funny you mention the difference between a short range trip and a longer time moving around with the rifle. When I was over in the sand box we just had iron sights on rifles that had the rails. Back then all we had on the rails was maybe a forend grip for the guys who liked them. I see guys other there with all the stuff hanging off the rifles and I just think that I'm glad I didn't have to carry that BS when I was there. I don't get why people put a bunch of stuff all over there rifle, but as long as they think it's worth carrying I'm happy for them.

 

[Cerberus]

It's funny you mention the difference between a short range trip and a longer time moving around with the rifle. When I was over in the sand box we just had iron sights on rifles that had the rails. Back then all we had on the rails was maybe a forend grip for the guys who liked them. I see guys other there with all the stuff hanging off the rifles and I just think that I'm glad I didn't have to carry that BS when I was there. I don't get why people put a bunch of stuff all over there rifle, but as long as they think it's worth carrying I'm happy for them.

+1. The second time I was over you could tell who the cherries were by what they had on their rifles. After the first couple of weeks, about the only things that were on the rifles were M68s/ACOGs and the PEQ-15. We were mounted so we didn't need the taclight.

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

Start stock. Learn the rifle. What it does, how it acts. See something you think would make it better? Evaluate it. See what others think, and be selective who. I go with a red dot and if I have a light, it's red, too. Iron sights are always ready. That's all. YMMV. Drill with it, so you can get it loaded, ready to fire, and your sighting system on automatically, without thinking about it. The more thinking you have to do when the chips are down, the longer it takes, and that's not the time. The more batteries you have the more dead batteries you will have. Be ready for those, too.

 

[leadhead05]

Had every doodad that unchle sam would give me to put on my m4. and had removed everything but iron sights and folding leaf quade sight for the 203. simple is better for me.

 

[fenderpbass]

KISS with a light on it.

 

[sgreen3]

I think my next AR will be in the KISS variaty. Just a good set of flip up sights and a single point sling mount.

 

[Cerberus]

I think my next AR will be in the KISS variaty. Just a good set of flip up sights and a single point sling mount.

Flip sites kinda defeat the 'simple' part of the KISS principal.

 

[Tombs]

yeah but i mean, whats your opinion on either? obviously kiss is cheaper, but is it more effective?

Kiss is cheaper?

Uh... No? On a kiss rifle, you'd be going for better components, far more expensive than throwing a bunch of gunshow rail roads and garbage on a gun.

My rifle is pretty close to the KISS concept, although at first look you wouldn't think so. Most of the stuff I've done to mine is to drop the over all weight.
Troy TRX extreme vs handguards+front sight+etc is quite a large weight difference. Enough to offset the weight of a heavy barrel.