McCain's Terror Bill: American citizens will be sent to military prisons

[Kirk Freeman]

Lawyers will argue, no question. It is a disagreement between two sets of lawyers. And, as my father says, ask two lawyers, get three opinions.

If you have a concern then write your representatives, newspaper and the Internet as you are doing now. However to say that 1867 will have our military rounding up . . . whoever is a little on the overblown side.

 

[under32hurts]

I think we have had enough laws and regulations filed and enacted under the table or without due process especially in the current administration. DOD is of course always going to do this for security reasons but I do think it's best to at least have committee hearings and reviews to go over the bills and such to assure we don't shoot ourselves in the foot. Dad always did say "measure twice, cut once".

 

[bingley]

APPLICABILITY TO UNITED STATES CITIZENS AND LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS.—

(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS.—The requirement to detain a person in military custody under this section does not extend to citizens of the United States.

Am I missing something, or does this mean we can take the guy who mows your lawn for $3/hour and throw him in jail, just by accusing him of terrorism?

In other words, it's like the first new minutes of this episode of the Office:

The Office: Sex Ed

Yeah, you might have to sit through a minute of ads, but it's worth it.

 

[KG1]

Am I missing something, or does this mean we can take the guy who mows your lawn for $3/hour and throw him in jail, just by accusing him of terrorism?

In other words, it's like the first new minutes of this episode of the Office:

The Office: Sex Ed

Yeah, you might have to sit through a minute of ads, but it's worth it.

I could be wrong but I don't think anyone will be accused of terrorism simply for mowing your lawn. I think they would need a little bit more to go on.

See what you start rambone.

 

[rambone]

Am I missing something, or does this mean we can take the guy who mows your lawn for $3/hour and throw him in jail, just by accusing him of terrorism?

The text you quoted from Kirk is an old version of the bill, that has been revised for the worse. The provisions exempting U.S. citizens and legal residents has been removed. The authors dutifully followed the orders of the White House when they told them to change the bill.

But to answer your question -- in either version of the bill -- undocumented workers are ripe pickings for military justice. Either way we slice it, the military is gaining a new foothold to operate inside the United States. And nobody has disputed that.

I could be wrong but I don't think anyone will be accused of terrorism simply for mowing your lawn. I think they would need a little bit more to go on.

Our entire concept of justice now rests with the hope that prosecutors only accuse people who are actually guilty.

See what you start rambone.

I didn't start this. Follow the links I provided and you will see who raised the alarm.

 

[bingley]

I could be wrong but I don't think anyone will be accused of terrorism simply for mowing your lawn. I think they would need a little bit more to go on.

I was talking about illegal aliens. Most of them work as sub-standard wage laborers. Does this bill mean if they are accused of terrorism, they can be whisked away to a gulag? (The exception seems to apply to US citizens and possibly legal aliens, not illegal aliens.)

If an illegal alien is falsely accused or entrapped, how will he prove his innocence? We cannot be a country in which people who hold papers get justice (or are supposed to get justice), and people who do not hold papers go on a different track when they are accused of a crime.

 

[rambone]

This is from 2009. Seems to line up well with the spirit of this bill.


Military-civilian terrorist prison considered

The Obama administration is looking at creating a courtroom-within-a-prison complex in the U.S. to house suspected terrorists, combining military and civilian detention facilities at a single maximum-security prison.

 

[Expat]

Good grief here we go again. Threads that are clearly being titled dishonestly. Kudos to Kirk for still having the patience correct the record.

 

[KG1]

This is from 2009. Seems to line up well with the spirit of this bill.


Military-civilian terrorist prison considered

This was all a part of the hub-bub over closing Guantanamo Bay and where to put the enemy combatants. I believe at one point they were even considering an under used prison in a rural area of Illinois which the illustrious Senator Dick Turdbin was lobbying hard to get.

 

[hornadylnl]

I'm just glad that our founders gave us an an unelected and unaccountable judiciary so that bills like this will be struck down or never misinterpreted by the other branches of government.

 

[ocsdor]

Did somebody say ? I have a picture for that.

 

[nemo97]

Did somebody say ? I have a picture for that.

LOL, this picture's captions pretty much sum up what I was thinking. The normalcy bias so many hold tells them "this can't happen here in America."

I have a novel idea. Stop passing laws. Stop implementing more regulations. Start enforcing the roughly 5,000,000 laws already on the books in the United States.

 

[thebishopp]

I'm just glad that our founders gave us an an unelected and unaccountable judiciary so that bills like this will be struck down or never misinterpreted by the other branches of government.

Isn't this supposed to be in purple? lol.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

LOL, this picture's captions pretty much sum up what I was thinking. The normalcy bias so many hold tells them "this can't happen here in America."

I have a novel idea. Stop passing laws. Stop implementing more regulations. Start enforcing the roughly 5,000,000 laws already on the books in the United States.

Then why would we need to spend millions and millions of dollars for legislators, travel, attornies, etc etc?


That is why they won't quit. If they are "doing their jobs" they get paid.

 

[BLA]

So who do we need to contact?

 

[nemo97]

Then why would we need to spend millions and millions of dollars for legislators, travel, attornies, etc etc?


That is why they won't quit. If they are "doing their jobs" they get paid.

It's a sick, cruel world is it not?

 

[dlbrown75]

Why cant you see that they are setting the stage. Little by little the police state is implemented so it wont be noticed and people wont resist. Guys like kirk will try to explain it away because thats easier than facing the truth.

 

[dlbrown75]

To me, Rambone and lots of other people who dont deny reality this is a big step toward being able to accuse anyone of domestic terrorism and having the military come arrest them. Wait your right kirk, its all fear mongering, lets all vote for Newt who has openly called for the end of our national sovereignty and said we should broaden the patriot act, and give amnesty to illegals.

 

[UncleMike]

Why cant you see that they are setting the stage. Little by little the police state is implemented so it wont be noticed and people wont resist. Guys like kirk will try to explain it away because thats easier than facing the truth.

 

[Bond 281]

He's got a point. Some people start foaming at the mouth whenever Rambone posts a thread so they can talk about how inaccurate or exaggerated/sensational/whatever and ignore the fact that even narrowly defined laws are often broadly interpreted.

The simple fact here is that a bill has been proposed to legally allow the government to accuse a citizen of terrorism then ship them off to a military prison with no due process at all. I don't care how unlikely you may think it that the power is abused, (while disregarding that we've already rounded up citizens and put them in camps) the fact that they have that power for any reason is scary. When most republican candidates are openly calling for ignoring the constitution when dealing with "terrorism" I can't see how S. 1867 wouldn't be alarming. To dismiss it so easily seems absurd.

On another note, why haven't we imprisoned all these politicians who hold office for violating their oath to uphold and defend the constitution? In my opinion, they ought to be charged with treason and hung from the highest tree in D.C.

Some nice quotes for you who are so casual about this.

"Free government is founded in jealousy, not confidence. It is jealousy and not confidence which prescribes limited constitutions, to bind those we are obliged to trust with power.... In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in men, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution." -- Thomas Jeffferson, 1799

"It is the common fate of the indolent to see their rights become a prey to the active. The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt." -- John Philpot Curran

“There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men.” -- Edmund Burke

"No man is entitled to the blessings of freedom unless he be vigilant in its preservation." -- General Douglas MacArthur

"There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty." -- John Adams, 1772

"There is one safeguard known generally to the wise, which is an advantage and security to all, but especially to democracies as against despots. What is it? Distrust." -- Demosthenes: Philippic 2, sect. 24

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined." -- Patrick Henry

And finally, "I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." ~James Madison

Our Founding Fathers -->