He's got no point. I don't know Kirk, but I've read enough of his posts to get a feel for his view of the world and his place in it (what he allows us to see, anyway). I get the feeling there's absolutely no loyalty to the status quo for the sake of loyalty nor for the sake of self-preservation or the evasion of fear. Kirk seems to be doing what most rational people would do.He's got a point. Some people start foaming at the mouth whenever Rambone posts a thread so they can talk about how inaccurate or exaggerated/sensational/whatever and ignore the fact that even narrowly defined laws are often broadly interpreted.
The simple fact here is that a bill has been proposed to legally allow the government to accuse a citizen of terrorism then ship them off to a military prison with no due process at all. I don't care how unlikely you may think it that the power is abused, (while disregarding that we've already rounded up citizens and put them in camps) the fact that they have that power for any reason is scary. When most republican candidates are openly calling for ignoring the constitution when dealing with "terrorism" I can't see how S. 1867 wouldn't be alarming. To dismiss it so easily seems absurd.
On another note, why haven't we imprisoned all these politicians who hold office for violating their oath to uphold and defend the constitution? In my opinion, they ought to be charged with treason and hung from the highest tree in D.C.
Some nice quotes for you who are so casual about this.
"Free government is founded in jealousy, not confidence. It is jealousy and not confidence which prescribes limited constitutions, to bind those we are obliged to trust with power.... In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in men, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution." -- Thomas Jeffferson, 1799
"It is the common fate of the indolent to see their rights become a prey to the active. The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt." -- John Philpot Curran
“There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men.” -- Edmund Burke
"No man is entitled to the blessings of freedom unless he be vigilant in its preservation." -- General Douglas MacArthur
"There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty." -- John Adams, 1772
"There is one safeguard known generally to the wise, which is an advantage and security to all, but especially to democracies as against despots. What is it? Distrust." -- Demosthenes: Philippic 2, sect. 24
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined." -- Patrick Henry
And finally, "I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." ~James Madison
Our Founding Fathers -->
The problem with Rambone's posts is that he is guilty of exactly the same thing he finds fault with: hyperbole and exaggeration for the sake of manipulation and control through the instillment of fear. That bill wasn't proposed for the purpose of rounding up U.S. citizens and enlarging the police state. That such a consequence is more easily implemented through this bill (or others) is cause for concern and diligence, to be sure. And no one here would have any problem with anybody, even Rambone, pointing that out.
Histrionics are never effective means of persuasion because it doesn't appeal to the rational people.
