New York Fire Department must dumb down test for minorities

[Phil502]

Whatever happened to the good old extra points for minorities tactic? This way they still pass the test. I don't feel too bad for New York (in general) they got what they asked for.

 

[Woodsman]

That was the case in Mass. (because I can't remember how many "s") and our Wise Latina Woman Supreme Court Judge either ruled against them in the case or refused to hear the appeal.

Yeah, that's it. She tried to vote present I think. Since the left likes to set case precedents and then say that's how the law was intended to work, I really like it when the crap they pull bites them in the rear. Because now, that court ruling can be used against them.

ps. I would have done the same thing with Mass. also.

 

[Bill of Rights]

...
New York
...

THE CITY IS APEALING!!!!

...

I have yet to find anything appealing about NYC.

This will only endanger lives. When I applied for fire departments a million years ago , there was some discussion of the physical agility test having two standards differentiated on the basis of gender.

Many of the male firefighters would go out of their way to ensure that the female firefighters who were unable to pass the test they all had felt very unwelcome. They did not remain firefighters for long, and the reason was not that they were women but that they were substandard firefighters; that is, if one of the men needed pulled out of a dangerous situation, they had to know that ALL of the people there in the same uniform could do the whole job. There was some talk of discrimination suits, but those are awfully tough to prove when you leave a job of your own volition.

Perhaps NYC will do likewise and overturn this "affirmative action" stuff. Contrary to some peoples' opinions, it's a lot more than just putting the wet stuff on the red stuff: there is a great deal of education that goes into being a firefighter. Even more goes into being a good one.

Hopefully, this will be sorted out in short order.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[JBusch8899]

Don't worry Ranger, you're more than academically qualified to become Mayor of NYC.

 

[E5RANGER375]

I have yet to find anything appealing about NYC.

This will only endanger lives. When I applied for fire departments a million years ago , there was some discussion of the physical agility test having two standards differentiated on the basis of gender.

Many of the male firefighters would go out of their way to ensure that the female firefighters who were unable to pass the test they all had felt very unwelcome. They did not remain firefighters for long, and the reason was not that they were women but that they were substandard firefighters; that is, if one of the men needed pulled out of a dangerous situation, they had to know that ALL of the people there in the same uniform could do the whole job. There was some talk of discrimination suits, but those are awfully tough to prove when you leave a job of your own volition.

Perhaps NYC will do likewise and overturn this "affirmative action" stuff. Contrary to some peoples' opinions, it's a lot more than just putting the wet stuff on the red stuff: there is a great deal of education that goes into being a firefighter. Even more goes into being a good one.

Hopefully, this will be sorted out in short order.

Blessings,
Bill

nice. you got me too. i even went back to reread my post. lol

i hope your right Bill. In any job, it should always be the overall most capable person doing the job. any job interview process is about competition. employers want the most talented and deserving to grow their businesses. more bang for the buck. the fact that some donkeys in govt find a need to make this a race issue is enfuriating to me.

ive been told before that I wouldnt be hired for a job, because im caucasian. i seriously probly ha steam coming out my ears I was so mad. but i felt let down by my own country, and that saddened me deeply.

 

[Que]

This is a serious problem that is not being deal with properly. Dumbing down the test will not close the achievement gap! It will only cause those, of all races, with the aptitude to score well, to do even better. So, how is this a solution?

I say scrub the entire system and provide everyone the same points for the physical agility, written examination, and oral interview stages. If one cannot do well on the written exam, he'd better hope he does better than everyone else in the other two sections. If not, back to whatever he did previously to put food on the table.

I also believe, because the job is very physically demanding, all firefighters should be required to remain at an acceptable weight and pass a yearly exam and physical agility test. I've seen many firefighters who, although they may be able to write a dissertation on the science of clearing a building and putting out a fire, they would not be able to actually do the job because they are too fat.

The written test should be the same test that everyone takes, and only provide a fraction of the overall score for acceptance into the academy. Now, how to prevent the ongoing nepotism and cronyism that is prevalent among public services is another topic.

 

[singlesix]

I think an annual physical is a good thing.

 

[Liberty's Teeth]

When will New York City realize that the Knicks don't have enough white players? They need to lower the standards of play so that the white guys can play on the team. It doesn't matter that they will lose a majority of their games if not all of them. At least they can go out for a beer afterwards. When you lose a "game" to a fire, you die. Fire doesn't care that you x number of whites, y number of greens, and z number of purples.

When will these idiots get it?

 

[Blackhawk2001]

I have yet to find anything appealing about NYC.

This will only endanger lives. When I applied for fire departments a million years ago , there was some discussion of the physical agility test having two standards differentiated on the basis of gender.

Many of the male firefighters would go out of their way to ensure that the female firefighters who were unable to pass the test they all had felt very unwelcome. They did not remain firefighters for long, and the reason was not that they were women but that they were substandard firefighters; that is, if one of the men needed pulled out of a dangerous situation, they had to know that ALL of the people there in the same uniform could do the whole job. There was some talk of discrimination suits, but those are awfully tough to prove when you leave a job of your own volition.

Perhaps NYC will do likewise and overturn this "affirmative action" stuff. Contrary to some peoples' opinions, it's a lot more than just putting the wet stuff on the red stuff: there is a great deal of education that goes into being a firefighter. Even more goes into being a good one.

Hopefully, this will be sorted out in short order.

Blessings,
Bill

We had the same problem when women started getting put into the Combat Arms; most women just can't compete physically with men.

The first bunch of women military helicopter pilots had a similar problem to female firefighters, except that instead of not being able to hack it physically, they were unsuited to meeting the standards expected of their male counterparts. To be as fair as I can be, some of this unsuitability was self-fulfilling prophecy on the part of military flyers; the guys didn't expect the gals to be able to perform; the gals (who are bigger on feelings than guys anyway) felt put upon and tended to not perform as well as they could.

The good news is that, once the newness wore off and there was less pressure to get _any_ woman through training, the later ones (both firefighters, combat-support troops, and pilots) have turned out to be just as good as their male counterparts (except for competitions of physical strength).

 

[ATOMonkey]

When will New York City realize that the Knicks don't have enough white players? They need to lower the standards of play so that the white guys can play on the team. It doesn't matter that they will lose a majority of their games if not all of them. At least they can go out for a beer afterwards. When you lose a "game" to a fire, you die. Fire doesn't care that you x number of whites, y number of greens, and z number of purples.

When will these idiots get it?

Diversity means hiring people who aren't white. If you had a whole office full of black, asian, latin, etc people, it would be quite diverse. You'd probably get a Federal grant and a medal for it.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

A somewhat nasty comment from me: I've had a bit of experience with NYC firefighters and IMO, if they let them get much dumber, on average, they'll forget to breathe. Case in point. They apparently have an institutional distain for SCBAs or respirators. They don't like to use them at fires and they pretty much refused to use them during search and rescue operations at WTC after 9/11. As a result, they have a lot of folks with respiratory problems today. Too dumb to survive, in my view.

 

[JBusch8899]

I would apply at the NAACP, merely upon principle, except for the fact that a white male isn't a "protected class".

 

[JBusch8899]

A somewhat nasty comment from me: I've had a bit of experience with NYC firefighters and IMO, if they let them get much dumber, on average, they'll forget to breathe. Case in point. They apparently have an institutional distain for SCBAs or respirators. They don't like to use them at fires and they pretty much refused to use them during search and rescue operations at WTC after 9/11. As a result, they have a lot of folks with respiratory problems today. Too dumb to survive, in my view.

In my experience, its not inherent to just the FDNY. Such is a failure of institutional leadership.

At least on paper, failure to utilize PPE is rational to deny claims for injury and illness.

 

[MinuteMan47]

Based on the typical mindless prattle I see in the "General Political Discussion", I figured I better just stick with the obvious.

Links???

Just wondering what YOU consider "mindless prattle"...

 

[Loco179]

You get extra points on the IFD exam if your skin color is black. It is pretty much any exam. There are two law suits in the works. One each way..lol

 

[E5RANGER375]

I also believe, because the job is very physically demanding, all firefighters should be required to remain at an acceptable weight and pass a yearly exam and physical agility test. I've seen many firefighters who, although they may be able to write a dissertation on the science of clearing a building and putting out a fire, they would not be able to actually do the job because they are too fat.

yeah, tell that to cops too. what a joke. being as big as 2 people isnt realy like getting 2 for 1

 

[Blackhawk2001]

In my experience, its not inherent to just the FDNY. Such is a failure of institutional leadership.

At least on paper, failure to utilize PPE is rational to deny claims for injury and illness.

The only big departments I have heard of with this problem are Chicago and NYC. No Marion County Fire Department I have had any experience with had that attitude (and I used to be around them quite a bit).

With the Chicago FD guys I've talked to, as well as the NYC guys, it was sort of "yeah, yeah, but there's 10,000 of us at ______ and we know better."

 

[$mooth]

The first bunch of women military helicopter pilots had a similar problem to female firefighters, except that instead of not being able to hack it physically, they were unsuited to meeting the standards expected of their male counterparts. To be as fair as I can be, some of this unsuitability was self-fulfilling prophecy on the part of military flyers; the guys didn't expect the gals to be able to perform; the gals (who are bigger on feelings than guys anyway) felt put upon and tended to not perform as well as they could.

The good news is that, once the newness wore off and there was less pressure to get _any_ woman through training, the later ones (both firefighters, combat-support troops, and pilots) have turned out to be just as good as their male counterparts (except for competitions of physical strength).

But they're still discrimated against. How do they use the relief tubes? they probably need it 6x as often as the men.

 

[hornadylnl]

I also bet he didn't whine to anyone to get the ASVAB test that he took and passed to get it dumbed down for him first.

Have you ever taken the asvab? From some of the people I saw in the Army, a foot stool could pass it.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Have you ever taken the asvab? From some of the people I saw in the Army, a foot stool could pass it.

thats not being very fair to the foot stool.