Only my police officer friend has the right to take your weapon.

[indykid]

I agree why not just have them step out of the.vehicle leaving the firearm in the car.

Because even though I have one in the car, I also have one holstered on my body, so in or out of the car, I am armed.

There really is no easy answer to this one.

 

[Josh Ward]

Heres another side of the coin.....99.999% of officers aren't going to have an "accident" (more like a negligent brain fart) like this guy......

LiveLeak.com - Cop Putting Gun In Lockbox Shoots Himself And Border Patrol Agent

...but its that .001% that could get ME killed. Hows about 'we' use a little common sense and not fool with loaded guns on a traffic stop????

 

[dross]

Here's my argument to your friend in a nutshell: By disarming a law abiding citizens you are contributing to LESS officer safety for you and your fellow officers.

Here's my logic:

I once would have informed an officer. That was my belief when I first started carrying. Since then, I have become aware that SOME officers will disarm you, maybe make unload your magazine, maybe even disassemble your weapon. In some cases you have to listen to lectures, or rude questions about why you need to carry. I've read about all of these types of incidents happening. I know it's probably a low percentage. Since, however, it MIGHT happen to me, I choose now to NEVER inform.

So, ask your friend. Is he safer with a weapon he knows is in the car, or on the person of a nice person who has politely informed him despite there being no requirement, or is he safer knowing that many people like me will NEVER inform him voluntarily? Is he safer with the weapon he knows is in the vehicle, or with the weapon he doesn't know is in the vehicle?

Simple logic.

 

[Hammerhead]

Que, I hope you told your friend that despite his training or personal beliefs, that the courts have upheld that presentation of a LTCH ceases all inquiry into weapons.

 

[ElsiePeaRN]

The question is, how would you feel if the officer were your friend who believed he needed to do that in order to protect himself, regardless if you know he was wrong in doing so?

I would understand and encourage him to do what he needed to be safe, but I would also do everything I could to convince him that there are ways of being safe AND repecting peoples' rights, for example, continuing the stop outside of the vehicle.

 

[Que]

Que, I hope you told your friend that despite his training or personal beliefs, that the courts have upheld that presentation of a LTCH ceases all inquiry into weapons.

I certainly did!

 

[E5RANGER375]

Exactly, Josh! But, it was that .001% that made me come to the realization that, yeah, I want Officer Brown to back off when he's presented with a LTCH; however, I want my friend to do whatever he feels is necessary to ensure his safety. I know it's jacked up, because what I'm actually saying is, I am comfortable with my friend infringing upon the rights of 99.999% of the gun owners he pulls over. Ray Charles can see that's not right, but that's where I am.

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I hope you dont mean that. people who knowingly infringe on my rights are my sworn enemy, no matter what uniform they wear. also if its a cop doing the infringing they are not keeping the oath they made.
safety doesnt come before the constitution ever. tell your friend to go get a new job

 

[Que]

Here's my argument to your friend in a nutshell: By disarming a law abiding citizens you are contributing to LESS officer safety for you and your fellow officers.

Here's my logic:

I once would have informed an officer. That was my belief when I first started carrying. Since then, I have become aware that SOME officers will disarm you, maybe make unload your magazine, maybe even disassemble your weapon. In some cases you have to listen to lectures, or rude questions about why you need to carry. I've read about all of these types of incidents happening. I know it's probably a low percentage. Since, however, it MIGHT happen to me, I choose now to NEVER inform.

So, ask your friend. Is he safer with a weapon he knows is in the car, or on the person of a nice person who has politely informed him despite there being no requirement, or is he safer knowing that many people like me will NEVER inform him voluntarily? Is he safer with the weapon he knows is in the vehicle, or with the weapon he doesn't know is in the vehicle?

Simple logic.

Dross, we went there, too. I even asked him what he would do if it was a gun he was not familiar with. I was pretty hot by this time and really don't recall what he said, but I know the end result was him taking the gun.

I even told him abut reports about officers taking guns and field stripping them. He admitted that was a bit much, but said he would take the gun and unload it and give it back to the person unloaded when he was done.

Okay, I'm starting to get ticked again! However, when I think about his pregnant wife and 13-month old son, I end up regrettably agreeing with him.

 

[Que]

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

I hope you dont mean that. people who knowingly infringe on my rights are my sworn enemy, no matter what uniform they wear. also if its a cop doing the infringing they are not keeping the oath they made.
safety doesnt come before the constitution ever. tell your friend to go get a new job

Back up and take a breath, Ranger. It's only a discussion and I admit my thought process is flawed. I'm asking how YOU would feel if it were YOUR friend, but I already know how you feel about this.

Yeah, I'll tell him to find another job. I'm sure that will work.

 

[dross]

Dross, we went there, too. I even asked him what he would do if it was a gun he was not familiar with. I was pretty hot by this time and really don't recall what he said, but I know the end result was him taking the gun.

I even told him abut reports about officers taking guns and field stripping them. He admitted that was a bit much, but said he would take the gun and unload it and give it back to the person unloaded when he was done.

Okay, I'm starting to get ticked again! However, when I think about his pregnant wife and 13-month old son, I end up regrettably agreeing with him.

Take deep breaths and I'll talk you through this one.

You have strong emotions concerning your friend. These are the same emotions that create anti-gunners out of women with children. They start imagining their child shot to death and then they want no guns for anyone because they can't imagine anything worse than losing their child.

You just want your friend to come home. Stop and think. He's really not any safer by doing what he's doing. It's an illusion, and the price of that illusion is punishing the very people least likely to harm him.

Emotions don't provide us with answers, they usually lead us from the best answer. Emotions should only provide the impetus to search for answers. We must use reason and principle to solve problems, emotions just get in the way.

 

[long coat]

However, when I think about his pregnant wife and 13-month old son, I end up regrettably agreeing with him.

Then he needs to find a new job.

 

[LPMan59]

unloading the weapon also makes everyone less safe. one, the loaded gun must be taken out of the holster, increasing the risk if ND. and second, the owner will certainly reload it immediately and place the gun in the holster, increasing the risk of a ND.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Back up and take a breath, Ranger. It's only a discussion and I admit my thought process is flawed. I'm asking how YOU would feel if it were YOUR friend, but I already know how you feel about this.

Yeah, I'll tell him to find another job. I'm sure that will work.

im still breathing
you know I like you. so nothing personal towards you. I just take this stuff seriously and we must have serious debate, not goosfrabba talk. I wouldnt immediately disown my friend, but I would like you did, talk to him and let him know FIRMLY that I disagree with him and I would point to the constitution to back up my case. I do have friends & family who are cops. I have some FORMER cop friends who think like your buddy currently does, and I can tell you it led them to do many other questionable & flat out wrong things in their careers so far, and thats why they arent my friends anymore. I have current friends that I have already had this discussion with and they would never knowingly violate someones rights. i told them to get another job. one was forced too

 

[Que]

Take deep breaths and I'll talk you through this one.

You have strong emotions concerning your friend. These are the same emotions that create anti-gunners out of women with children. They start imagining their child shot to death and then they want no guns for anyone because they can't imagine anything worse than losing their child.

You just want your friend to come home. Stop and think. He's really not any safer by doing what he's doing. It's an illusion, and the price of that illusion is punishing the very people least likely to harm him.

Emotions don't provide us with answers, they usually lead us from the best answer. Emotions should only provide the impetus to search for answers. We must use reason and principle to solve problems, emotions just get in the way.

Great points and I receive them. This is exactly the same "non-talk" that I have with my wife concerning our son. I will be taking my friend to the range as much as possible and hopefully he will befriend some seasoned officers that believe in the rights of LTCH. I was hoping that bringing this here would help and it did. Thanks!

 

[PatriotPride]

I did ask him if he was taught that in the academy and he said that he was. He was also very eloquent with directing the conversation back to "officer safety," so I guess it was taught is some formal fashion.

His attitude is exactly why I have never advised an officer that I am armed except for the one time that I had a black powder revolver on the front seat in plain view. Officer safety is NOT a valid excuse to infringe my rights. Not at all.

I can understand that logic can be skewed when dealing with emotions---the officer is known to you, so your judgement is affected. That being said, I have friends who are patrol officers. I'd rather they do their job correctly and not embrace the BS that is "Officer Safety". So far, at least as I've been told, they've been very reasonable when interacting with persons with firearms.

As much as people tend to hate to hear it, I firmly believe that this issue should be a deciding factor in whether or not an officer is fit to work the street. If a legally-carried firearm causes that much anxiety and therefore causes an unfavorable interaction between citizen and LEO, then it IS indeed time for that officer to either find a new profession or request to be moved to a desk position.

 

[Josh Ward]

Take deep breaths and I'll talk you through this one.

You have strong emotions concerning your friend. These are the same emotions that create anti-gunners out of women with children. They start imagining their child shot to death and then they want no guns for anyone because they can't imagine anything worse than losing their child.

You just want your friend to come home. Stop and think. He's really not any safer by doing what he's doing. It's an illusion, and the price of that illusion is punishing the very people least likely to harm him.

Emotions don't provide us with answers, they usually lead us from the best answer. Emotions should only provide the impetus to search for answers. We must use reason and principle to solve problems, emotions just get in the way.

^^^^THIS^^^^


I'd REP you, but I'm out for the day....

 

[Que]

I will be looking for some training classes that me and my friend can attend together. Hopefully, he will spend some time at the range, beyond he qualifications. I will also get him on INGO and hopefully Ranger doesn't run him off.

 

[E5RANGER375]

I will be looking for some training classes that me and my friend can attend together. Hopefully, he will spend some time at the range, beyond he qualifications. I will also get him on INGO and hopefully Ranger doesn't run him off.

I wont. I dont like the feel of leather boots on my face

 

[Bunnykid68]

I will be looking for some training classes that me and my friend can attend together. Hopefully, he will spend some time at the range, beyond he qualifications. I will also get him on INGO and hopefully Ranger doesn't run him off.

I am on Rangers side on this one....

 

[E5RANGER375]

I am on Rangers side on this one....

thats it!. ........ Im starting a talk show