Premium Grade ARs - Your preferred brand?

[68_F100]

 

[M67]

Slick Mega build

And since it turned into a pic thread

 

[rvb]

when I think "premium," I think JP.

BMC, Noveske, lMT, DD, Colt, etc are all just ARs that, yes, may have better QC and some parts upgrades and maybe some cool brand-specific parts over the BM/RRA/etc, but I don't see "premium" there, IMO.

-rvb

 

[ryan3030]

when I think "premium," I think JP.

BMC, Noveske, lMT, DD, Colt, etc are all just ARs that, yes, may have better QC and some parts upgrades and maybe some cool brand-specific parts over the BM/RRA/etc, but I don't see "premium" there, IMO.

-rvb

I'd have to agree with an earlier post in this thread. That isn't premium, that is luxury.

That is "how do I spend the most money possible and get the best competition build possible"

On the 'bang for your buck' scale items like that come in pretty low. You end up paying a lot for only a little gain over the high-end alternatives.

 

[Trigger Time]

I think if I were to drop some coin on a new ar I be looking at top performance in a light as possible package. Not polymer.
some of the new stuf out there is pretty sick. That's the stuff that impresses me.

 

[craigkim]

I'd have to agree with an earlier post in this thread. That isn't premium, that is luxury.

That is "how do I spend the most money possible and get the best competition build possible"

On the 'bang for your buck' scale items like that come in pretty low. You end up paying a lot for only a little gain over the high-end alternatives.

I was the one who used the term and I agree with you, but would add one thing.... when you compare the JP rifles to other Luxury rifles, you do get something in return. Not saying its a linear dollar per enhancement value, but there is an edge over other rifles. Shooting my JP is like shooting a BB gun, even with 5.56. It's an interesting sensation. I am not saying this in an accusatory way and please take it in a friendly way, but have you shot a JP with the LMOS, adjustable gas, comp, etc? It's pretty cool. Compare that to the super high priced Noveske Gen III rifles which I described as "boutique", because they are just that, fancy for the sake of fancy and expensive for the sake of expense. You hold my Gen III next to a BCM and it might feel or look cooler, but is shoots the same, so what did you really get? Some cerakote and a roll mark? BUT, Noveske has different lines too, so to me, you can't just say Noveske and that describes all of their rifles. Their forged receiver rifles are/were more affordable and probably fall into the "premium" category.

I wish I had as much time to shoot these rifles as I do to talk about them! Aaah...

 

[rvb]

On the 'bang for your buck' scale items like that come in pretty low. You end up paying a lot for only a little gain over the high-end alternatives.

I would argue the exact opposite. you actually get performance for the $ w/ something like a JP CTR. The gap between a BCM and a high-end JP in terms of performance is much larger than the gap in performance between a BCM and a RRA. Most people if I handed them a RRA and a BCM they couldn't tell the difference in shooting them other than looks. Hand them a JP and even a novice can tell the improvement in how it shoots.

If you make the jump from RRA to BCM you're buying improved QC, and confidence based on the brand's reputation for durability and use of "mil spec" parts and maybe a smidge of accuracy and weight savings. If you make the jump to a high-end JP, you're buying a gun that helps keep you on target and helps you get rounds on target faster, and a barrel that rivals Kreiger or Lilja. Improvement you can feel and measure.

I've got ARs all over the quality scale. My "beater" is a low-end parts gun w/ mostly RRA parts and a BM barrel. Something like 10-12k rounds through it. Cleaned about 3 times. It's also the gun I keep where I can grab in a hurry. The step up to a BCM doesn't get you a whole lot. Most could get the same level of confidence out of a RRA/BM gun by dropping in a mil-spec bolt.. if they're worried about anything failing on their entry-level gun, that's usually the part to worry about (my "beater" gun is still on it's original RRA bolt, even though it's on it's second barrel!).

Not to say BCM doesn't make good stuff. I've used many of their part, incl their new KMR handguard (which is hard to believe it's actually metal it's so light!) and their barrels. If I was looking to spend $1500-$2k on a factory AR for basic use/defense, that's where I'd look. I just don't think of them when I think "premium."

2c

-rvb

 

[craigkim]

I would argue the exact opposite. you actually get performance for the $ w/ something like a JP CTR. The gap between a BCM and a high-end JP in terms of performance is much larger than the gap in performance between a BCM and a RRA. Most people if I handed them a RRA and a BCM they couldn't tell the difference in shooting them other than looks. Hand them a JP and even a novice can tell the improvement in how it shoots.

If you make the jump from RRA to BCM you're buying improved QC, and confidence based on the brand's reputation for durability and use of "mil spec" parts and maybe a smidge of accuracy and weight savings. If you make the jump to a high-end JP, you're buying a gun that helps keep you on target and helps you get rounds on target faster. Improvement you can feel and measure.

I've got ARs all over the quality scale. My "beater" is a low-end parts gun w/ mostly RRA parts and a BM barrel. Something like 10-12k rounds through it. Cleaned about 3 times. It's also the gun I keep where I can grab in a hurry. The step up to a BCM doesn't get you a whole lot. Most could get the same level of confidence out of a RRA/BM gun by dropping in a mil-spec bolt.. if they're worried about anything failing on their entry-level gun, that's usually the part to worry about (my "beater" gun is still on it's original RRA bolt, even though it's on it's second barrel!).

2c

-rvb

You have the CTR?

 

[rvb]

You have the CTR?

No, too cheap to spend that kind of coin. But I've shot them. My 3gun AR uses their low mass bolt carrier and light weight buffer and handguards and w/ adj gas and a good comp on a woa barrel it shoots just about as well. 99% of the performance and about 1/2 the cost....

Same idea w/ the 308 I'm building. I'm using JP barrel, handguards, bolt, and carrier. Rest is parts and it'll be about 1/2 the cost for basically the same gun/performance that JP would sell (minus side charger)

home built FTW.

-rvb

 

[craigkim]

No, too cheap to spend that kind of coin. But I've shot them. My 3gun AR uses their low mass bolt carrier and light weight buffer and handguards and w/ adj gas and a good comp on a woa barrel it shoots just about as well. 99% of the performance and about 1/2 the cost....

Same idea w/ the 308 I'm building. I'm using JP barrel, handguards, bolt, and carrier. Rest is parts and it'll be about 1/2 the cost for basically the same gun/performance that JP would sell (minus side charger)

home built FTW.

-rvb

I don't want to derail this topic, but I can't PM because my post count is too low, so sorry for the discussion.

I just got my JP about 6 weeks ago and I ordered it in April. I contacted Larue the same week and they told me their lead time was a year, so I went JP. I am glad I did. I got the JP comp, teflon coated 18" barrel, syrac gen ii, 15.5" rapid config hand guard, the heat dissipator in black, the LMOS, captured silent spring, JP 3.5 lb reliability enhanced trigger, etc. I didn't get the CTR, because I wanted to be able to swap out the LMOS for a full mass bolt, open up the gas, maybe throw on a flash hider and have a reasonably good HD setup or be able to use it for a carbine class. My goal was also to avoid the rifle looking too flashy or special looking.

I have only shot it once, but instantly was like, "Oh, that IS different!" It's definitely on another level from my other ARs. I don't like the diameter of the hand guard especially compared to the Noveske NSR, but it's got to be larger to accommodate the diameter of that dissipator/heat sink device. I prefer the Raptor CH over the JP one that it came with and I wish I had gotten a QD receiver end plate, but oh well.

 

[rvb]

I have only shot it once, but instantly was like, "Oh, that IS different!" It's definitely on another level from my other ARs.

I doubt you'd've had that same impression from a noveske/larue/etc.

true you don't have to get the CTR to get most of the performance. Other than the flashy receivers, I don't know what you're missing from a CTR. Sounds like a great shooter!

And that's why I like building my own, there's always something on ANY factory gun you wish was different, eg the end plate or charging handle or muzzle device. But those are easy fixes.

Congrats on your "premium" rifle!

-rvb

 

[ryan3030]

Interesting thoughts. Thanks to both of you for your input and honest opinions.

 

[craigkim]

I doubt you'd've had that same impression from a noveske/larue/etc.

true you don't have to get the CTR to get most of the performance. Other than the flashy receivers, I don't know what you're missing from a CTR. Sounds like a great shooter!

And that's why I like building my own, there's always something on ANY factory gun you wish was different, eg the end plate or charging handle or muzzle device. But those are easy fixes.

Congrats on your "premium" rifle!

-rvb

Well, I've never shot a Larue, most of my shooting has been with a Colt, my Scar, and a Ruger SR 556, but of my two Noveske's neither left me with the same game changer sort of impression. My best analogy would be like when I pick up my Glock 19 and it feels/looks so boring and the ergonomics are sortof vanilla and then I pick up my HK P30 and it's got more impressive design, looks, and well, everything. Then I take them both out and I shoot the Glock better. Feels better and looks better doesn't mean performs better. I read a post one time though where a guy said something to the effect that "I look at my gun a hell of a lot more than I shoot it, so I care at least as much about how cool it looks."

 

[venenoindy]

I shot quite a few rifles over the years (Bushmaster, Rock river, Dpms, Daniel defense, Tavor , PSA, HK MR556, Tavor, BCM, etc). So far the Knights is the smoothest and softest shooting, its kind of hard to explain but would I pay the price tag again YES!.

 

[sig1473]

The proof is in the pudding so to speak with Noveske barrels. That is how John built his business. I thought it was hogwash until I actually shot head-to-head against other AR barrels that I own(i.e. Spike's, PSA CHF, Stag, Colt, BCM). YMMV

 

[obijohn]

What about a Troy Carbine?

 

[ryan3030]

What about a Troy Carbine?

What about it? I asked for your opinions.

Do you have a troy carbine? Thoughts on it?

 

[Jeepsandguns]

Daniel Defense!!!

+1

 

[ADDICTED2TONE]

I own a Colt and a old Bushmaster. I can't shoot well enough to tell the difference between them and a Daniel Defense or a Noveske. My Colt is all tacticool with an Eotech 512 and all kinds of other crap on it.
My Bushmaster is an old Dissipator XM 15 with a permanent carry handle and irons and an A2 stock.
I honestly like it better than my Colt LE6920. I learned on iron sights in the Corps so I'm comfortable with the Bushmaster. My Colt is nice and I love the Eotech but I find myself reaching for my Dissipator more.

 

[obijohn]

What about it? I asked for your opinions.

Do you have a troy carbine? Thoughts on it?

so far i do. runs on all the ammo and the mags i intend to use. light weight, solid. seems to be a good example of a mid range ar. i can let you know more after i get through with the accuracy testing, but hits on a 10" plate at 240m with the iron sights is promising.