Reporter wants to talk to gun owners

[techres]

Does anyone have a subscription to the Herald Times web site? They supposedly have access to info on 4,000 "gun licensees" in Monroe county.

I did and all it said for my street was: 1.

Funny thing, there are AT LEAST 4 on my street, so the database is not so accurate.

Here's how I see it:

1. Looking for "nuggets" = Bad. Nuggets are never gold anymore.
2. Asking for input due to time constaints = Bad. Likely a sign of drive by interest in the subject, and no dedication to research jounalism.
3. Coming on the heels of the Indy Article = Bad. Plagerism could rear its ugly head in literal or honorary form.
4. Not much info in the database = Neutral. Could reveal criminals, or famous faces, or both.
5. Large number of permit holders = Good. We are your friends and family.
6. Lack of journalistic history of hitjobs = Neutral. Dunno if this is his first chance to break out into the open field like Mike Leonard.

We will see. And, yes, I will report back as will the others I am sure. Who knows, maybe we can make a dinner of it at BW3 and all talk at the same time. At least the food would rock!

Oh, and I fully plan to invite him to the range. (For him to learn and have fun)

 

[indianajoe]

To my knowledge the database only has numbers of permits per street. It is available on the HT web site. It does NOT have personal, direct, info.

Think about it, if it had direct info, he would not need to beg for people to call him!

Looking at his Twitter page, and some articles that came up on a quick search, he likes to put things in Excel and count them (ref Indiana Economic Digest "Bloomington issues more than 143,000 parking tickets").

From Twitter: "The state gun permit DB has 326,988 entries. This should be fun. Let's see what nuggests [sic] I can find. 10:31 AM Oct 29th from TweetDeck

 

[schafe]

Oh, and I fully plan to invite him to the range. (For him to learn and have fun)

Great idea! I haven't been a part of the Bloomington area handgun community very long, but I have been a member of the off road community for more than 35 years. I have seen this technique used by the off road motorcycle community (American Motorcycle Association) in affecting good will and legislation in land use controversy, and it was very effective. They see families involved with a wholesome sport, and not raping, plundering and pillaging, and ultimately they understand. Good luck !

 

[techres]

Great idea! I haven't been a part of the Bloomington area handgun community very long, but I have been a member of the off road community for more than 35 years. I have seen this technique used by the off road motorcycle community (American Motorcycle Association) in affecting good will and legislation in land use controversy, and it was very effective. They see families involved with a wholesome sport, and not raping, plundering and pillaging, and ultimately they understand. Good luck !

Exactly! I have also seen it work wonders and love doing it.

(Plus it is an excuse to get out to the range... )

 

[Jack Ryan]

Here's what he's asking:

Hi,

Here are some of my questions. If you’d like to chat over the phone, that’s fine too. Thanks.

What kind of permit do you have? When did you apply for and receive your permit? Why did you apply for that type of permit? Why did you buy handgun? What kind of handgun is it? Where do you keep your handgun? Do you ever carry your handgun in public (i.e., to a public place like the mall or walking on a sidewalk on a city street)? Why or why not? If you’ve never carried it in public, have you ever been in a situation where you wish you had? Have you ever used your handgun at a firing range or other location where discharging a gun is allowed?

Here's what I sent back so far:

Q: What kind of permit do you have?

A: An Indiana lifetime license to carry a weapon.

Will YOU answer MY questions if I answer YOURS?

How did you get a list of Indiana permit holders and why?

Do you own a firearm of any kind?

If so, where do you keep it and what hours are you not at home?

Do you carry anything of value in public and do you have a firearm on your person when you are in posession of anything of value? Why or why not?

I've got an even better idea, why don't you just meet me somewhere and I'll show you some people with guns. Might even let you hold one. LOL.

If he wants to ask questions, make him answer a few of the ones in this thread about him.

"What guns do you have and where do you keep them?" Now that's a funny one right there.

 

[antsi]

you have the right to be misquoted and made to look like a paranoid fanatic, action junkie!!
dont trust reporters!

Repp'd.

If you say 100 sensible, well-spoken things to this guy, and one thing that can be twisted and distorted into something inflammatory, guess what's going to get put in the article?

 

[Sthunter987]

WARNING about this report

this is a story from the local paper in Bloomington....



• By Michael Malik | Tuesday, November 10, 2009 at 3:48 pm | 1 Comment »
Indiana has more than 326,000 active handgun permit holders, 4,900 of which are in Monroe County, according to the state.
The Indiana State Police gun permit database has great little nuggets of information that could turn into stories. However, I don’t have an endless amount of time.
As a result, I’m writing a short series of stories about handguns that will begin to run Nov. 22. However, I need your help.
Since these stories deal with handguns, I’m looking to talk to handgun owners. If you’re a handgun owner — regardless of whether you have a permit — and are willing to answer a few questions for my story, please call me at (812) 331-4370 or e-mail me at mmalik@heraldt.com

I talked with him on 11/11 @ 09:00. He did not want to speak with me since I was not in Monroe Co, so I pushed him alittle to get some information. What I found was unpleasant.

1.) He was only interested in Monre Co individuals. Not information about the subject. When I pushed this he stated he wanted to know if ALL LCTH holders carried their gun on them or in there car. He stated he recieved information that most of them "just left the gun in the house" (I'm still laughing about this one).

2.) When I asked him about the database he stated he recieved it from the ISP and it had LCTH's name, address and such. He stated he had to"complete" alot of paperwork to get the list, but it's apart of "Public Domain". I told him I did not like that, because if this was true then anyone on that list can become a "target". He stated it did not have the SS#.

3.) After I pushed him some more, he stated he has found information that LCTH's rose considerable after Obama's election. He's fishing to put them together.

When I tried to push him a littler farther, he stated he had a 09:30 meeting and had to go.

My opion: He's not wanting information about LCTH and there choices. He on a fishing trip to hang gun owners and Obama.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

2.) When I asked him about the database he stated he recieved it from the ISP and it had LCTH's name, address and such. He stated he had to"complete" alot of paperwork to get the list, but it's apart of "Public Domain". I told him I did not like that, because if this was true then anyone on that list can become a "target". He stated it did not have the SS#.

...

My opion: He's not wanting information about LCTH and there choices. He on a fishing trip to hang gun owners and Obama.

I cannot imagine that the ISP can give that sort of info away. My first instinct upon hearing this was that it was some kind of freedom of information act request. Anybody out there that can verify that they are giving this kind of info away? If so, maybe we ought to send this to Drudge or Limbaugh or somebody and get the tables turned. The ISP handing out generalities like 4568 permits for a given county is one thing. Handing out personal info is a DIFFERENT STORY.

Anybody else that talks to him please try to find out how it was gotten. Detiails - WHO they got it from. etc.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I dropped a letter to find out this information. Will post what I can, if/when I get a reply.

 

[techres]

I cannot imagine that the ISP can give that sort of info away. My first instinct upon hearing this was that it was some kind of freedom of information act request. Anybody out there that can verify that they are giving this kind of info away? If so, maybe we ought to send this to Drudge or Limbaugh or somebody and get the tables turned. The ISP handing out generalities like 4568 permits for a given county is one thing. Handing out personal info is a DIFFERENT STORY.

Anybody else that talks to him please try to find out how it was gotten. Detiails - WHO they got it from. etc.

Agreed, and make clear that it marks a gun owner for home break ins or home invasions.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Agreed, and make clear that it marks a gun owner for home break ins or home invasions.

...and that those who aid and abet felons in their unlawful activity will be held accountable in court for their actions.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[techres]

...and that those who aid and abet felons in their unlawful activity will be held accountable in court for their actions.

Blessings,
Bill

Journalists have not been held to full account in Ohio where they have acquired the list under the pretense of public info and then published the list right in the paper. Result, at least two robberies that seemed quite likely to be tied to the list publishing IIRC. One may have involved a death (hazy memory from my days over at OhioCCW forum).

That info is dangerous and he is a young journalist.

Now I very much do want to talk with him.

 

[SirRealism]

Here's what I sent back so far:

Q: What kind of permit do you have?

A: An Indiana lifetime license to carry a weapon.

Will YOU answer MY questions if I answer YOURS?

How did you get a list of Indiana permit holders and why?

Do you own a firearm of any kind?

If so, where do you keep it and what hours are you not at home?

Do you carry anything of value in public and do you have a firearm on your person when you are in posession of anything of value? Why or why not?

I've got an even better idea, why don't you just meet me somewhere and I'll show you some people with guns. Might even let you hold one. LOL.

If he wants to ask questions, make him answer a few of the ones in this thread about him.

"What guns do you have and where do you keep them?" Now that's a funny one right there.

Perhaps he's young and doesn't quite understand the implications of what he's asking. To your reply, I'd add:

"Do you own any jewelery or other small, easily-carried valuables? Where do you keep these items? Do you have a home alarm? What is your work schedule?"

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Exactly Techres - If they are not held responsible in a court of law, we CAN hold them responsible in the Court of Public Opinion. They can't go giving out information from people's driver's licenses - so what on Earth do they think they can do with Firearms license info??

This reminds me of something that happened recently in Kalifornia with Prop 8 (and where one stands on that issue is irrelevant to the story). Lists of donors to one side of the issue were made public. Their homes and businesses were then boycotted and picketed. And I know of one person who lost his job DIRECTLY over contributing to a political campaign. These are the kinds of things that letting that kind of info out can cause.

I did recommend to one person who was worried about people accosting him in his yard (since he had contributed to one side of the issue)... Put up a sign in your yard saying "YES I contributed to Yes on Pro 8... I also contributed to the NRA..."

I will be glad to help get to the bottom of this - we need to find out what's up.

 

[techres]

Sandusky Register's error-filled list of CHL-holders' private info

Shortly after The Register published these confidential records, Buckeye Firearms volunteers began spot checking the list for accuracy. The Sheriff's offices were able to confirm that they had supplied correct information to the newspaper, and the paper published wrong information, which continues to be available to the public on the Internet at SanduskyRegister.com.

Without having the accurate list of CHL-holders to compare to, it is impossible to know how many times the newspaper published false information, but judging by the rate of error determined by our investigation, the number of errors could be in the hundreds.

This is not the first time a newspaper has published false information when attempting to "out" CHL-holders. In March of 2007, the Cybercast News Service reported that Virginia's Roanoke Times had irked gun owners by publishing a list of that state's concealed carry licensees, along with the obligatory editorial comparison of gun owners to sex offenders.

Just one day later, the Times pulled the list after discovering that the list "include[d] names that should not have been released" (One concern was that the list had violated a state law against identifying crime victims. Further, our friends at the Virginial Citizens Defense League reported that the paper had listed the home address of the Chief Justice of the Virginia Supreme Court). The Times pulled the list "out of a sense of caution and concern for the public", and later announced that it would not repost the list on its website.

 

[SC_Shooter]

FWIW - I have had many, many interactions with reporters because of a day job and have been mis-quoted in every single case. I assumed at first that it was simply a mistake, but later took up the practice of only responding in writing to questions from the press. Imagine my surprise when I saw that even my typed and faxed comments were being mis-quoted!

I have no particular hatred for the media...in fact a number of them are my friends. The reality of their profession is that even the good ones who DO actually want to do a proper job of reporting are not given the time to do it. If you haven't toured a newspaper's offices lately, I'd encourage you to do so and to note all the empty desks and cubicles that were once filled with reporters, fact checkers, etc. I'm not making excuses for them - just pointing out a fact that is worth keeping in mind.

My point is that bad reporters with an agenda (either theirs or their editor's) will always be a problem. Good reporters don't have the time to properly research most stories (unless they are huge stories...which this guy would not be writing at his level of experience). We have no good way to know which this guy is, but my experience says to stay out of it if at all possible.

 

[JLB768]

"Hi,

Here are some of my questions. If you’d like to chat over the phone, that’s fine too. Thanks.

What kind of permit do you have? When did you apply for and receive your permit? Why did you apply for that type of permit? Why did you buy handgun? What kind of handgun is it? Where do you keep your handgun? Do you ever carry your handgun in public (i.e., to a public place like the mall or walking on a sidewalk on a city street)? Why or why not? If you’ve never carried it in public, have you ever been in a situation where you wish you had? Have you ever used your handgun at a firing range or other location where discharging a gun is allowed?"


A few questions that can be twisted against gun owners...

Where do you keep your handgun? = Easily accessible to young children

Why did you buy handgun? Self Protection = Paranoid

What kind of handgun is it? Semi Auto = Changed to Automatic Weapon in story. Seen the Herald Times do it before, and put a small retraction up when they get called on their "mistake".

Do you ever carry your handgun in public (i.e., to a public place like the mall or walking on a sidewalk on a city street)? = Dangerous concealed weapons being carried in malls full of thousands, and on our city streets where children play.

Come on, this is a Liberal paper, do you guys honestly think they are going to write a Pro firearm story? His "great little nuggets of information" are most likely goof ups, that allowed someone who should not receive a permit, to get one. This isn't gonna be good, mark my words.

 

[techres]

Come on, this is a Liberal paper, do you guys honestly think they are going to write a Pro firearm story? His "great little nuggets of information" are most likely goof ups, that allowed someone who should not receive a permit, to get one. This isn't gonna be good, mark my words.

Actually, it is the same paper that ran a pro-gun article less than 30 days ago. The key was who wrote that one and who is writing this one. Yes, it looks bad and I may choose not to participate, but first I want to hear his questions - preferably in person and then go from there. And before that, I want to have every scrap of info on hand for where I go after our conversation.

I agree that this is almost certainly a replay of the Indy article on CCW and he is doing a re-run rather than actually doing something new and creative. My interest is in finding out what he is doing, if it can be shaped, and how I plan to respond.

I may join into the "ignore" crowd, but I might not.

 

[dbd870]

This isn't gonna be good, mark my words.

No doubt about it. Put me on the list for Never talk to the media.

 

[JLB768]

Actually, it is the same paper that ran a pro-gun article less than 30 days ago. The key was who wrote that one and who is writing this one. Yes, it looks bad and I may choose not to participate, but first I want to hear his questions - preferably in person and then go from there. And before that, I want to have every scrap of info on hand for where I go after our conversation.

I agree that this is almost certainly a replay of the Indy article on CCW and he is doing a re-run rather than actually doing something new and creative. My interest is in finding out what he is doing, if it can be shaped, and how I plan to respond.

I may join into the "ignore" crowd, but I might not.

I honestly hope your right, and it will be Pro firearm, but some of the questions he's asked, make me think otherwise. Do you carry in public, like a mall etc? What kind of handgun is it? Where do you keep it? It's a personal protection permit, the whole idea behind having one, is about public carry. Asking if you ever carry in public is a dumb question, but asking if you carry it in a mall, well that's a little more interesting question aint it? As is where do you keep it. These are questions that can really spice up a story for a creative writer...