Reporter wants to talk to gun owners

[techres]

I honestly hope your right, and it will be Pro firearm, but some of the questions he's asked, make me think otherwise. Do you carry in public, like a mall etc? What kind of handgun is it? Where do you keep it? It's a personal protection permit, the whole idea behind having one, is about public carry. Asking if you ever carry in public is a dumb question, but asking if you carry it in a mall, well that's a little more interesting question aint it? As is where do you keep it. These are questions that can really spice up a story for a creative writer...

I actually agree with you, my meter is at about 90% bad, 5% really bad, and 5% salvageable.

Here's the thing though, if he were savvy and really wanting to do a hatchet job, he has tipped his hand and I have NO INTENTIONS of answering those questions. I am happy to answer another set which we can come to if he wants to talk, but I am not gonna answer THAT set.

I do want to talk to him and see if he is willing to reset his questions and shoot for a better article in the end. It will not likely work, but I am willing to give it a shot.

 

[JLB768]

I actually agree with you, my meter is at about 90% bad, 5% really bad, and 5% salvageable.

Here's the thing though, if he were savvy and really wanting to do a hatchet job, he has tipped his hand and I have NO INTENTIONS of answering those questions. I am happy to answer another set which we can come to if he wants to talk, but I am not gonna answer THAT set.

I do want to talk to him and see if he is willing to reset his questions and shoot for a better article in the end. It will not likely work, but I am willing to give it a shot.

I guess I'm just a skeptic, I've read way too many stories in various papers, that do their very best to tear gun owners to shreds. I hope for the best, but expect the worse. Good luck to ya techres.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Guys -

More important in my mind is this. 1) Does he indeed have street address, name etc of LTCH holders? or is that BS? 2) If so, what hoops does one have to go through to get this info? 3) What is being done to safeguard this info? It is potentially harmful info.

Whether the article turns out to be pro or anti is important - but not as important as the above in my book. Any news on this?

 

[techres]

I've made some inquiries. He's young and likely bit off more than he expected. I cannot say more at this time.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

From everything I've seen Techres - you seem to be a fairly level-headed person and that will likely help in the discussions. I look forward to hearing the outcome - and I understand that that may take time.

It would make sense that someone young might not understand what an impassioned and serious issue they were walking into. It happens - in every profession.

What's that quote from the Tom Clancy book? - "If your gonna kick the tiger in his arse, you'd better have a plan for dealing with his teeth..." or something like that. I would suspect that many of us kicked the wrong tiger at some time in our lives - I sure have.

 

[Panama]

This is interesting and disturbing all at the same time. I too am concerned about the amount of information he was able to acquire from the ISP. I sure as HELL do not want my name and address available on a list of permit holders! I plan to call the ISP tomorrow and if I get an answer I will post it then.

You can go to the link in the OP 1 Comment and submit a comment even if you are not a subscriver, I am not a subscriber, but I did leave the following coment on the HT page.


I have never understood the misplaced fascination with law bidding, taxpaying, everyday citizens rights to own and carry a handgun, even after a complete and thorough background check preformed by the Indiana State Police?
Would it not make MORE sense to anonymously interview the criminal element, to see why they chose to illegally possess, carry, and use a firearm illegally?
Why the fascination with law bidding citizens exercising their Constitutional rights.
The last time I checked, you did not need a particular reason for obeying the law?
Very odd indeed!

 

[techres]

From everything I've seen Techres - you seem to be a fairly level-headed person...

Well, I just got off the phone with Mr. Malik. He is less young and wide eyed than I expected. The conversation went pretty well but ended before I could invite him to the range. We will see.

Oh, and I did not answer his questions, but he got to answer some of mine.

I am sending an email followup to invite him to the range...

 

[rambone]

Oh, and I did not answer his questions, but he got to answer some of mine.

What did you ask?

 

[x10]

Ok guys I sent an email to the guy to shoot with us this Thursday night.

I'm going to do my best to throw out the olive branch and give him a cross section of people

I know it can end bad but If WE don't try to make it better it will never get better.

all we can do is try, If we do nothing and let him find the type of people that will fill out the story for him then the bad guys win. If we at least give him a group of people who are good guys and using firearms safely then at least he has to make up stuff to hate us for.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

That seems reasonable, x10 I'd STILL like to know about that database...

Enquiring minds want to know... (grin)

 

[protongun]

perhaps some good ,free INGO advertisement will come out of this??

 

[techres]

perhaps some good ,free INGO advertisement will come out of this??

I made NO mention of INGO. None. I don't think it would help. I will have more to say later about our phone conversation. I would NOT advise sending him here as it would cloud the conversation.

 

[techres]

What did you ask?

There were two different issues in what he was saying the article is about. And we began with him telling me that he already had what he needed to write the article. Additionally, I already had info that he is tight on time to get the article done, so I went ahead and forced the conversation even though customers had to wait on the counter for my overworked employee while I had the talk.

Anyways, the discussion was about two things:

1. Why do people carry, etc. He claims this is the main thrust of the article. We did not talk much about this since he has what he needs. I pointed out how his article is on the heels of one in Indy that did not treat the gun community well and that many in the community are still upset and that his request got some serious attention and not everyone was willing to speak to him out of fear of unfair treatment.

2. The second is the revamping of the database the HT makes public. The one that is on now is old but has all the information we feared in it according to him. The HT just decided not to release all of what they have. They have a new list and are rediscussing their decision about holding back. I offered my opinions about how dangerous such a list is in real life form and tried to make that clear with examples (see my followup email below). I also tried to get at what moral balance they were striking, i.e. why they "need to" make this info easy to access and how that cannot balance against the dangers of the information (1. Public right, 2. Public Safety, 3. Entertainment Value). I think I did well.

In the end, I tried to get in what I could given the conversation was partially over before it began. Finally, I did send this followup email:

Sorry, I was rushed in our conversation (I was calling from work) and forgot to invite you to the range sometime if you
wanted to go. I invite anyone who is interested in the firearms community and simply forgot during our conversation. I had
originally called to have a more leisurely conversation under less pressure but I understand that time did not permit it.

At the same time, if you ever want to go, either as a personal interest or as a journalistic one, let me know.

Good luck with your article,
[techres's easily found real life name...]

P.S. Oh, and some links to refer to the points I mentioned:

A paper who went through the public listing before and pulled it:

Roanoke.com: Breaking news, sports and weather from The Roanoke Times newspaper

Paper receives flak for list - Roanoke.com

And a felon's use of a list in a newspaper database to track down a law officer:

North Country Gazette Post-Star, Pistol Permits And Public Safety

Last one includes: "Ken Hanson, legislative chair of the Buckeye Firearms Association and author of The Ohio Guide to
Firearm Laws says that by publishing lists of persons who have obtained concealed handgun licenses, newspapers such as
the Sandusky Register have taken private, non-public record information and made it public.

“Beyond the fact that The Register has now made public that which statutorily was not to be public, what harm can come
from this?” Hanson asks. “Buckeye Firearms Association previously brought you the story of a prison guard who was tracked
down by a former inmate by using a concealed carry list published in a local paper. However, beyond this explicit example,
the general public remains largely unaware of just how much harm can come from this."

Finally, an exact example of abused women being outed:

Privacy of Concealed Carry Permit Holders

"Since then, the list was taken down, but Stewart wants to make sure this doesn't happen again, mainly for safety reasons.

"Some of these are women who have protective custody order from x-spouses; they now know where they live," Stewart said.
Tuesday, Stewart filed a bill that would protect the privacy of those with concealed handgun permits.

"It will still be available to law enforcement, or for any court proceeding, but will not be out there to put on a website for
public information," Stewart said. "

And there you have it.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

First - props to you for taking the time and effort!
Second - it sounds like the HT got the entire database from the ISP. I'm betting that it was with a Freedom of Information Act request. Which any newspaper (or website with a journalistic bent) can do.
Third - so it's up to every tin horn two bit publisher to decide and strike the moral balance between what they make public and what they don't? Heaven Help us... as the examples you gave show...


Well done in any case, sir - even if I don't particularly like what I'm hearing...

This information (LTCH) should be accorded the same protections as our drivers license and car reg info. No more - but sure as heck NO LESS! The problems with misuse are roughly equivalent.

 

[MTC]

He's trying to do on the county level what the Indy Red Star did recently on the State level. From the Star's site:

... carry-permit probe
Interactive: Search through 15 dossiers of Hoosiers with dubious backgrounds who received permits
Video: Star Watch editor Alvie Lindsay introduces story
Database: Search state’s carry permits by zip code
RELATED INFORMATION
Star Watch investigation
The Star examined more than 900,000 records for this project but focused primarily on two large counties -- Marion and Lake -- where local law enforcement issue their recommendations for approval and disapproval electronically and where comprehensive criminal histories are more accessible.

And yes, they did get names and addresses, else they would not have been able to break down the demographics. Instead of a thirteen page thread arguing whether ISP or local LEOs should deny more permits, the question should have been, and still is, should "reporters", or any other miscreants, be allowed to sift through personal information and compile dossiers and databases on LTC holders. The usual flippant remarks like "public's right to know" and "What have you got to hide?" don't cut it with me. That's not the point. If you can meet with him personally, you might let him know in no uncertain terms that some folks don't appreciate being targeted by the electronic equivalent of snooping through your mail.

If there is any loophole in Indiana law that should be closed, it is this one.

 

[JLB768]

Here's a good article on the dangers of publishing a list of those who have permits. I found the part below in red, particularly interesting

Across the Fruited Plain: Concealed Carry Confidentiality

"In my home state of Ohio, the Cleveland Plain Dealer was one of many news entities to obtain and publish a list of licensees after prodding from the Ohio Newspaper Association. Just a few days after the first list was published, one of the license-holders on that list - a Cleveland store-owner - was dead, having been ambushed by violent armed robbers as he came to work one morning.[1] Many wondered why the criminals knew they needed to get the jump on the store-owner. Had they read his name in the newspaper?
Other early problems with Ohio's concealed carry law, which was written to specifically declare the records of license-holders private, and then to allow journalists access to the "private" records, included the sheriffs in at least two counties releasing private information beyond that enumerated in the media access loophole[2]. Additionally, at least one license-holder's guns were stolen from his home after having his status as a gun owner published in the newspaper[3], and a prison guard was tracked down by a former inmate by using a list published in the local paper.[4]
Gun rights activists fought back. In the case of the Plain Dealer and Sandusky Register, editors had their own information - truly public information - compiled and published on pro-gun websites such as BuckeyeFirearms.org. Telephone numbers, maps to their homes, deeds to houses, and even divorce records were displayed as examples of how such records could be used against individuals or family members who found themselves on lists such as the ones the newspapers were creating."

 

[Jack Ryan]

So when some of you guys were marching around down town Indianapolis with your family, guns, friends, were calling media outlets and "educating" the public, I didn't notice all this shyness I'm seeing now.

About every other month some one posts some form of thies sign like they just discover bread and butter.

Then there's a six page thread of back slapping and claims to have one just like it in their own yard and what a great idea it is.

Must be 10 threads bragging up open carrying guns every where from church to weddings and barbeques along with crying around about how they want to be "flashing" their barbeque gun to the kindergarten as well.

Instead of all the crocodile tears I'd think you'all would be embracing the spot light. Get strapped up and march around down town Bloomington. "I'm your friends, I'm your neighbor, I'm armed and I carry, I'm the guy on this list you are crapping your liberal panties over. Get used to it, get over it."

You want to be the pro gun hero with his face on TV at the Obama party and then you don't want the media to know your name. Fickle as 13 year old girls.

 

[NateIU10]

Nathan,

Do you think you might be willing to allow a photographer to get a picture of you with your handgun? It could be of you loading it, cleaning it, showing the photographer how you conceal it or firing it at the range. Also, I’d like to come with you to the firing range the next time you go to see what it is like to shoot a handgun because I’ve never fired a gun before.

I had another few follow up questions. Since President Obama was elected to office, have you changed your purchase habits in relation to the guns you own? Did you buy more or different guns or more ammunition when he took office? Why or why not? Were you worried that President Obama would restrict your access to certain guns or ammunition?

Well, looks like he wants do do an article on me lol. Not sure how I'm going to proceed at this point. Techres, he is obviously interested in shooting at a range. I've only introduced shooting to 3 or so people, who are all family members, maybe the 3 of us could meet up at a range some time?

I figure being an Obama demographic gun-owner has sparked his interest in me?

 

[Mr. Habib]

Be careful, if he has one of these RUN!

 

[MTC]

No tears. Don't crave the spotlight. Stayed out of the OC vs CC threads 'cause it's none of my business. Some folks just want to be left alone. If they want to get acquainted, it should be on their terms, not the news media's. What they don't want, is something like the article that enraged gunowners in Virginia a few years back. (public access to database removed after a firestorm of protest)
Shedding light on concealed handguns - Roanoke.com

From the article...his thinly veiled intentions:

A state that eagerly puts sex offender data online complete with an interactive map could easily do the same with gun permits, but it does not.

Across the Fruited Plain: Concealed Carry Confidentiality

Great find.

One of the more common items inserted as a poison pill in many states under pressure from the establishment media was a public records provision. "We have to make sure," the editorial boards claimed, "that the 'right' people are getting licenses." But in the months and years after concealed carry laws took effect,it quickly became clear the media had far less noble intentions.

Instead of reporting, each time an armed robbery, home invasion, or car-jacking occurred, that the violent attacker did NOT have a license to carry, the news media set about to publish lists containing the private, personal information of license-holders, not unlike the state publishes records about registered sex offenders.

ETA: Good job, guys. Hope you can steer him in the right direction.