Reverting to tribalism?

[hoosierdoc]

a sanders supporter walks around calling us evil, robbers of the poor, says they will take back what we've stolen from them. They attack our families, make us slaves to their taxation theft. And they want to complain that we won't tow their car when it breaks down?

on the moral relativity scale they lose big time. Deal with the consequences of the politics you support.

 

[Tombs]

If only someone had warned us of this problem.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_No._10
It was called "faction" or "factionalism" though:
The way to fight it: gridlock.
The text of Federalist No. 10.
https://www.congress.gov/resources/display/content/The+Federalist+Papers#TheFederalistPapers-10

To take from one, because it is thought that his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to every one a free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.

That is not a just government, nor is property secure under it, where the property which a man has in his personal safety and personal liberty, is violated by arbitrary seizures of one class of citizens for the service of the rest.

The Utopian schemes of leveling, and a community of goods, are as visionary and impractical, as those which vest all property in the Crown, are arbitrary, despotic, and in our government unconstitutional.

I somehow doubt that they'd agree with you given the circumstances.

I agree, if we can't remain polite and kind while we make a political statement, then there's usually more to our point than politics (though we may not always know it).

If I'm expected to be polite and kind to those who harbor more violent and oppressive views than the regime we fought and took our independence from, then I believe we have failed as a nation.

 

[T.Lex]

I somehow doubt that they'd agree with you given the circumstances.

Wait.

Are you saying that Tom Jefferson, Jim Madison, and Sammy Adams would disagree with Federalist 10 (and, to a lesser extent 9), that factions were not something to be feared?

I offered no comment on the propriety of the tow truck driver's decision.

I may disagree with the decision (or not), but I will defend his right to make the decision for himself without government intervention.

 

[Tombs]

Wait.

Are you saying that Tom Jefferson, Jim Madison, and Sammy Adams would disagree with Federalist 10 (and, to a lesser extent 9), that factions were not something to be feared?

I offered no comment on the propriety of the tow truck driver's decision.

I may disagree with the decision (or not), but I will defend his right to make the decision for himself without government intervention.

I thought you were negatively slapping the label on the tow truck driver, as an emerging sect of people who are sick and tired of treating societal looters with the respect we show each other.

My bad. By disagree with you, I meant they would very likely not be the ones to push forward and assist the social-justice-warrior class into obtaining significant governmental powers.

 

[T.Lex]

I thought you were negatively slapping the label on the tow truck driver, as an emerging sect of people who are sick and tired of treating societal looters with the respect we show each other.

My bad. By disagree with you, I meant they would very likely not be the ones to push forward and assist the social-justice-warrior class into obtaining significant governmental powers.

Ah, right. I guess it was too subtle that I quoted the thread title and not any of the posts.

Frankly, the was-he-right-or-wrong is less interesting to me than the underlying question: are our political differences becoming so deep that unity is foreclosed. And the related question of the role government shuold have in bridging the gap.

The map of Trump wins v. notTrump wins is a bit disconcerting.

 

[Tombs]

Ah, right. I guess it was too subtle that I quoted the thread title and not any of the posts.

Frankly, the was-he-right-or-wrong is less interesting to me than the underlying question: are our political differences becoming so deep that unity is foreclosed. And the related question of the role government shuold have in bridging the gap.

The map of Trump wins v. notTrump wins is a bit disconcerting.

I believe it's a self righting problem that's built into the basics of how society functions. If you want to deviate so far off the reservation that people can't tell if you're trying to be satirical or serious, the treatment you receive eventually pushes you back to some degree of sensibility, at least if you want any stake at all in your community.

I'm not so sure that a decade of government brainwa... education is enough to entirely override that when it reaches as ridiculous of extents as the modern liberal.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ys-he-refused-service-to-a-sanders-supporter/

Tow truck driver won't tow car due to owner supporting Sanders. Apartment building that won't lease to Trump supporters. Come the eff on. Is this really what we're going for?

This weekend's homework assignment for INGO, readings on the politics of South America.

 

[IndyDave1776]

This weekend's homework assignment for INGO, readings on the politics of South America.

You do realize that this works out to a semester long 300 level course?

 

[Bartman]

From another article: Cassy McWade said she suffers from Psoriatic Arthritis, Fibromyalgia, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and early stage Crohn's disease.

iI'm not a medical doctor, but aside from the psoriatic arthritis, that combo sounds like a perfect storm of hypochondria. And unless there are no other towing companies that could have assisted her, it sounds like her roadside hardship is being overstated a bit.

I''ll let others argue the religious angle. Although I find it amusing when threads like this come up how atheist or agnostic members will waste no time in explaining how a Christian should practice their faith.

 

[HoughMade]

Just to stimulate conversation....

I've read on INGO that people should be able to refuse business to other people for being gay.

Yes. That and any other reason. Gay people can refuse me service for being straight if they want to. It's the nature of private property rights. But to be clear, the issue in the national news is not "being gay" it's taking actions that appear to endorse gay marriage.

Is this really any different?

Maybe, maybe not. People should have the right to refuse services to anyone.

Whether they should​ or not is a different questions altogether. People should have the right to be horrible people. We all should have the right to let the market punish them, or not.

 

[foszoe]

Why do I have difficulty with the right to refuse service to anyone?

Is it a matter of degree?

If it was a black driver and a confederate flag sticker would it be any different?
A Jewish driver and a swastika sticker?
A white driver and a black lives matter sticker?
A XXXX colored driver who don't like YYYYY colored drivers?

 

[MuttX7]

I'm no expert in theology but I would classify what he did as defying Christ's second new commandment: Love your neighbor as you love yourself. If we're to follow His lead, we shouldn't spitefully reject someone just because of a political opinion or the way they have their car festooned with bumper stickers or packed with campaign signs. Had the person asked him to do something immoral or against his religion, maybe. But just to do his job? Uhh...no.

Thanks. You actually answered the second question I had.

 

[foszoe]

I'm no expert in theology but I would classify what he did as defying Christ's second new commandment: Love your neighbor as you love yourself. If we're to follow His lead, we shouldn't spitefully reject someone just because of a political opinion or the way they have their car festooned with bumper stickers or packed with campaign signs. Had the person asked him to do something immoral or against his religion, maybe. But just to do his job? Uhh...no.

Jesus was born and raised Jewish. Jesus did things against his religion all the time.

The reasoning must go deeper.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

You do realize that this works out to a semester long 300 level course?

Stop getting me excited.

I might just get another tweed jacket with leather elbow patches over the weekend.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

People should have the right to refuse services to anyone.

Well, the Supreme Court of the United States has another view.

 

[T.Lex]

Well, the Supreme Court of the United States has another view.

Well, Congress disagreed before SCOTUS got involved.

 

[jamil]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ys-he-refused-service-to-a-sanders-supporter/

Tow truck driver won't tow car due to owner supporting Sanders. Apartment building that won't lease to Trump supporters. Come the eff on. Is this really what we're going for?

Yeah. We've become so ideologically entrenched and so divided that it's come to that. I dunno. I guess I think compassion should outweigh ideology in day to day interactions. So if the Truck driver had a Trump bumper sticker on his tow truck, would she have refused the service? I don't know. Depends how desperate she was, I guess. The whole thing seems like an opportunity for an informative conversation between the two was wasted.

But this discussion about the validity of the woman's "disability" seems mostly irrelevant. The one side wants to make it more relevant than it is so the Truck driver looks like an even bigger dickhead. The other side wants to question the validity of the woman's disability to mitigate that. Who should care? He didn't refuse her because he was judging her for feigning some disability. He refused to serve her because she supports Sanders. So why does his scale of dickheadedness even matter? The point is, we've gotten so divided, so far apart politically, that it's becoming increasingly difficult to be civil with one another, even to let compassion outweigh politics. Probably being a dickhead about it will only make that worse.

 

[jamil]

Well, the Supreme Court of the United States has another view.

Well, not that the SCOTUS is all that interested in upholding the constitution. They're interested in upholding their whims.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Jesus was born and raised Jewish. Jesus did things against his religion all the time.

The reasoning must go deeper.

I'm not so sure He did things against "His religion" as much as he did things against the way His religion/law was being "enforced". I think He fulfilled or completed His religion. (I'm not saying it right).
"

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

on the moral relativity scale they lose big time.

Relativity being the key term there. My guess is that the other side has their own version of the same scale and guess who they put on the losing side of theirs?

If I'm expected to be polite and kind to those who harbor more violent and oppressive views than the regime we fought and took our independence from, then I believe we have failed as a nation.

I didn't think we were talking about fighting a revolution, I thought we were talking about a guy refusing service to a woman.

"Sorry mom, I can't give you these Mothers Day flowers until you get that sticker off your car."