Ruffled Feathers

[seedubs1]

Well said. OP, read this again.

What's to understand? You stuck your nose in someone else's business. It went over like a turd in a punch bowl.

On your defense it is your private lot and you can dictate what goes on. Being an FFL and offering to do a transfer for them was the cherry on top! Hilarious!

 

[TangoSierraEcho]

I lease my facility from a landlord and my license allows me to sell at my address but that address isn't the parking lot which I don't own, my lease covers the use of the parking lot but not exclusive use, so I don't really see how I could be held accountable for someone making some deal in the parking lot. Honestly don't have the time to watch the parking lot so not sure if I would even see something happening but even after reading every response here I don't see how a deal in the parking lot would have run afoul of the ATF gods unless I sent those people out there to make a deal I could not make in the shop.

All that said, it is his shop, his rules, however he wants to play it, who am I to judge.

 

[Clay]

that's what I was going to ask........ is the parking lot your property or do you lease the property your business is on. I've never been to Albertson's, so I have no idea of the layout.

 

[DanVoils]

that's what I was going to ask........ is the parking lot your property or do you lease the property your business is on. I've never been to Albertson's, so I have no idea of the layout.

When I had my retail store (paintball pro shop) I leased the space and we shared the parking lot. It was in a small strip mall with multiple stores. None of us had exclusive spaces. I agree that not knowing the layout of Albertsons this point may be moot.
(On a fun note if anyone remembers The Bullet Hole at 96th and Keystone the space I rented was the exact same space.)

Dan

 

[Old Dog]

Completion of a 4473 is a federal requirement of transferring inventory from an FFL holder to another person/entity. If the FFL holder is not involved in the transaction, and is not acting as a 3rd. party broker to the deal I see no reason to get your panties in a wad because the 4473 is not required in a private party exchange. Having said that, "your lot your rules", if you do not want that occurring in your lot maybe you should post it.

 

[JettaKnight]

I understand that the ATF person you talked to might have a certain opinion, but if they cannot cite a statute/rule/regulation, then it is just an opinion.

I take the words of an ATF person to carry about as much weight as the word of the loudmouth at the LGS. Hey, did you you guys know the lifetime LTCH is going away?


If this was true, then every FTF sale in the parking of Cabela's, Rural King, Walmart, Meijer, etc. is illegal.


I can see why a LGS doesn't want a swap meet set up in the parking lot, but giving grief to a two guys for doing a FTF deal on a slow Thursday morning is bit much. The most likely out come is lost sales due to pissing off two potential customers (and the people they talk to, and some people reading this thread).

I think the better thing to do is start a bidding war there in the parking lot.

 

[gglass]

No law or code cited = No rule...

 

[HoughMade]

If I were an FFL, I would have the same policy.

No need for the ATF to come sniffing around thinking I'm doing "off the book" transactions when I am not. Would I ultimately be cleared? Yes. Would it be a pain and expensive to resolve it? Probably.

Find someplace else.

 

[Alpo]

It's a matter of courtesy. I wouldn't attempt to sell/buy someone else's product at the site where someone has set up a brick and mortar store to do the same thing. It's just rude.

Why do you need to be there? Because it's "safe"? Because people are used to seeing guns? Well, duh. You're utilizing the goodwill of that merchant.

Find your own location and leave the local gun store guy to attempt to make a living despite the internet and big box stores.

 

[Albertson's]

Thanks for all of the input, I think we will continue to err on the side of caution.

We do own the building, as well as the parking lot.

Please feel free to use us as a transfer agent for those interested in going through the NICS system for private party sales. Mention this post and we will see what we can do to make the transfer fee go away.

 

[JettaKnight]

Regardless of etiquette, I think we can agree that claiming it's illegal when it's not, is poor form.

The exception here is that the LGS owner was given bad advice by someone that should know better.

ETA:
In future maybe you should say, "Hey, I'd prefer you not do FTF deals in our parking lot - some ATF agent might see this and give us some grief." I'd understand, and respect that.

 

[Alpo]

What was necessary:

 

[nra4ever]

I agree poor etiquette. The FFL should have offered to do it for free and possibly gained a customer.

 

[Libertarian01]

I agree with JettaKnight.

Presuming that the premise of T.Lex is true and that a sale between two (2) private individuals is legal, then it follows that the BATFE agent was in error considering all of the variables (FFL not being one of them).

However, HoughMade brings up a good point about not poking the hornets nest. Just because we can do a thing doesn't mean we should do a thing.

Courtesy and etiquette should guide all of our actions, but I am glad to read this clarification.

Understanding what the law really says helps all of us avoid spreading inaccurate information that could get really whacky downstream.

Regards,

Doug

 

[T.Lex]

Yeah, just to be clear, I have no quarrel with the LGS having a policy that frowns on this, or offers incentives to bring it inside. That all makes sense from a business perspective.

People sometimes use "its against the law" as an easy way to avoid an argument, regardless whether its true. But, that then gets twisted all sorts of ways. Better to have good information, IMHO.

That said, if the LGS is going to have a policy about this, probably a good idea to post it in the parking lot to make people aware.

 

[Alpo]

That's how we end up with everyone taking their shoes off to catch an airplane. 2 good ol' boys want to be rude, so the owner needs to go out of his way to put up negative advertising?

I don't think so.

 

[T.Lex]

That's how we end up with everyone taking their shoes off to catch an airplane. 2 good ol' boys want to be rude, so the owner needs to go out of his way to put up negative advertising?

I don't think so.

It doesn't have to be negative.

"Transferring a firearm? C'mon in out of the dirty parking lot and we can help."

 

[Alpo]

Want to sell your boomstick without a backgroud check? Feel Free! Then come in and pet Al Paca.

 

[T.Lex]

 

[schafe]

Recently, I've begun to consider a gun range to be a good place for a private sale. To me, it seens that the sight of a firearm in the parking lot likely wont be a problem, and the opportunity exists (obviously) for the purchaser to try the firearm on the spot. Buy a gun, have some fun!