Rule Number One: All Guns are always loaded

[Hookeye]

Have seen Fudds and mil and LEO and even instructors.............not check guns, and or swear they're unloaded..............and they're not.

I don't trust anybody, not even myself. I double and triple check all the time.

Have had so many loaded guns pointed at me, while working or visiting a shop (or range)..........it's so common...................I don't get too bent about it anymore.
Just glad I didn't get popped.

Just file it under another "why I hate people" .

BTW, anybody see/comment yet on the Outdoor Channel mountain man that blew off a finger doing the modified Africa carry on his MZ (finger over muzzle)?
Guess his piano career might be over, best stick to being a TV expert on guns n stuff.

 

[oldpink]

Here's one.....

Guy brings in a rifle to sell. States price. Gunshop dude opens action and sees nothing in the mag or chamber (looking at ejection port).
Gun is in great shape, price is very good, deal is done.

In the later lull, dude takes gun to away area to inspect. Nothing in mag (may have removed mag). Looks down bore...........to inspect rifling..............can't see anything.

WTH?

Cleaning rod and a bump...............out pops a loaded 7mm 08. Gun was BAR in 7mm Rem Mag.

Old timer knew something amiss and tried to dump it, without informing purchaser.

You could see chamber rear portion...............looked empty...............but that didn't mean it was.

Yep, and that's why Chief Moore and Chief Rodriguez both told us that part of verifying a cleared gun was to hold the muzzle up to a bright light (sunshine or right at a light bulb...flashlight if necessary), then peer into the chamber area for light coming all the way down the bore to there.
It sounds as if that BAR had a problem with its extractor, and your story only reinforces the need to take nothing​ for granted when verifying whether a gun is unloaded.

 

[jamil]

Well, it was really a matter of time, but a I had a first today: I was doing a FTF purchase of a handgun and met up with the fellow in a public place. All details on the transaction had been worked out in advance, due diligence performed, date, time, location, Check.

I arrive, we greet and do the usual parking lot exchange, I open my trunk and set the pistol inside to inspect it. Mrs Subic has me covered from the car and is waiting patiently. I open the case and I'm very happy with the new condition of my pistol purchase, as advertised. I'm excited that I got a good deal and I'm ready to proceed:

Colonel Cooper, is that you sir? (fate has now joined our transaction)

I am going through the usual paces, I safety check the weapon and something different happened this time.

A shiny, brass shell did it's best impersonation of Simone Biles and tumbled end over end into the recess of my trunk. The seller was shocked and mumbled an apology. I proceed without much fanfare and concluded this pistol is the one for me. I finish my business, take my new pistol home, clean it and hit the range.


Now, the After Action Report. Safety checking a firearm is 2nd nature to me, I do it and re-do ad nauseum, to the point of OCD.

Today it paid off. The seller handed me a loaded pistol and told me it was unloaded because he forgot the 1st rule. Fortunately for everyone involved, I did not.

So, has anyone else had the pleasure of having a loaded weapon handed to them during a sale, either private party or at a gun store?

I'm not going to go full on ATM here. I'm firmly on the side of the 4 rules. Just some comments. Unless the seller swept you with it, maybe with his finger on the trigger, or, you were planning to point it at something you didn't want destroyed, maybe coonfingering the trigger, you weren't in danger because there are 3 other rules to obey. I see rule one as a psychological mindset for the other 3. Seeing other people making gun safely obvious in how they handle guns gives me more confidence being around that person handling guns. The seller broke the etiquette of safe handling by not checking it first himself.

 

[2A_Tom]

Preach on, fellow Gunner's Mate.
I normally stood watch as roving security, and it was required that we always first eject the magazine (if inserted), lock back the slide, then both visually and tactilly check the chamber in a well lit area (this was an around-the-clock watch, so this included nighttime naturally), before handing the gun with the slide of the gun (1911A1, M14, Remington 870, Mossberg 500) still open for the relieving watch to repeat the process before holstering the gun and assuming the watch.
In all those years, the only incident (not safety-related, btw) occurred when I checked the magazine of the M14 I was to take for watch and found that there was one round missing from the magazine, probably because one of the previous dumbasses on watch had been fidgeting with the magazine out of the rifle.

FIFY

Don't get stuck in the OODA loop or drop your SA while you tactically clear your weapon.

Sorry, oldpink. I couldn't resist.

 

[oldpink]

FIFY

Don't get stuck in the OODA loop or drop your SA while you tactically clear your weapon.

Sorry, oldpink. I couldn't resist.

heh
Don't forget to -- once you've verified the gun is clear -- to grasp it with both hands, pulling it all the way back until the gun butt is touching your upper sternum, then do a scan to your left and right.
That's how all the 3733+ guys do it.

 

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

I once went down to the show at Richmond. Emptied and checked a 686 in the hatch of my car. Carried it in in a gunrug. Girl at the door checked it again. Carried it around for twenty minutes or so until a vendor asked to see it...... and found a round in the cylinder. I'd always been pretty safety oriented before that day. Now I'm paranoid as fxck. And I prefer it that way. That day really sticks with me. Could've been a very bad day.

 

[Hornett]

This...........Well, maybe some spell check but you know...

Wow.
That was really bad.
The keyboard on my tablet at home went Cuh-razy last night.
It actually looked fine when i hit 'Post'

I fixed the original, but everyone quoted it, so I still look dumb.
Can't win 'em all...

AND I always check the chamber with my pinky finger.
Visual and tactile checks, ya' know.

 

[tjh88]

When I hand someone a pistol, I check the chamber first.
Then, typically, they will check it again.
And that's how is should be.

Usually like this only I check and ask them to check too. I hate being the dumb@$$.

 

[223 Gunner]

OP, good thing YOU were following the rules. I have personally never had that happen, but as examples prior to my post, sometimes things happen.
Good thing you checked, I'm sure the owner felt dumb when it popped out, he should have checked himself before presenting it to you to inspect.

I always, always, always, check before handing a firearm to anyone.

 

[JettaKnight]

FIFY

Don't get stuck in the OODA loop or drop your SA while you tactically clear your weapon.

Sorry, oldpink. I couldn't resist.

You replaced the incorrect "tactically" with the made up word "tactilly"?

Perhaps you meant "tactility".

 

[JettaKnight]

The seller handed me a loaded pistol and told me it was unloaded because he forgot the 1st rule. Fortunately for everyone involved, I did not.

Wait, what? I am to infer that the seller should have told it was loaded, or maybe tell you nothing, or what? If I hand a firearm to someone I should always say it's loaded? I don't think he necessarily forget the first rule, he just was a dunderhead that didn't do his due diligence.


I typically say nothing as the receiver should check, check and recheck.



And just to be that guy, after you unloaded it, was it still loaded?

 

[2A_Tom]

Actually tactilely. Left out the e.


tactile

1: perceptible by touch : tangible

2: of, relating to, or being the sense of touch

tactilely \-tə-lē, -ˌtīl-lē\ adverb

 

[oldpink]

Actually tactilely. Left out the e.


tactile

1: perceptible by touch : tangible

2: of, relating to, or being the sense of touch

tactilely \-tə-lē, -ˌtīl-lē\ adverb

It's a good thing none of us ever misspels anything.

 

[Hookeye]

Yep, and that's why Chief Moore and Chief Rodriguez both told us that part of verifying a cleared gun was to hold the muzzle up to a bright light (sunshine or right at a light bulb...flashlight if necessary), then peer into the chamber area for light coming all the way down the bore to there.
It sounds as if that BAR had a problem with its extractor, and your story only reinforces the need to take nothing​ for granted when verifying whether a gun is unloaded.

Extractor was fine..............a 7mm-08 in a 7mm Rem Mag was the problem.

Dunno what would have happened if somebody tried to run a 7 mag in behind it.
It did pop out pretty easily and the gun was minty.

Just p*sses me off the old fart knew something was jacked and tried to pass it off. Have seen a few others monkey triggers to be unsafe, not tell people.

Guy from another town comes in to sell something at very good price............probably has it screwed up. Pay even less (in case you have to get it fixed).

 

[oldpink]

Extractor was fine..............a 7mm-08 in a 7mm Rem Mag was the problem.

Oh yeah, that smaller rim explains it.
That gun would automatically be suspect since some dumbass thought it was a good idea to chamber 7mm-08 in a 7mm Rem. Mag.

 

[MohawkSlim]

Once you checked it and unloaded it..... was it still loaded?

 

[2A_Tom]

It's a good thing none of us ever misspels anything.

Got me.

 

[JettaKnight]

I think it's time to tactfully walk away from this thread...

 

[2A_Tom]

Tactically
Tactilely
Tactfully
Tacitly
Tactility

"what difference does it make at this point?"

 

[SubicWarrior1988]

Once you checked it and unloaded it..... was it still loaded?

Yes, at one time. Aren't semantics wonderful?

The 4 rules are a mindset, not an algorithm.