Rule Number One: All Guns are always loaded

[JettaKnight]

Perhaps this will help.

Jeff Cooper's Rules of Gun Safety

I'll quote from that article:

RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
There are no exceptions. Do not pretend that this is true. Some people and organizations...

Go ahead, read again; I'll wait.





Does the author's subconscious sense of reality want to come out?

 

[SubicWarrior1988]

I'll quote from that article:

Go ahead, read again; I'll wait.





Does the author's subconscious sense of reality want to come out?

perhaps a better editor would have helped, that being said, the rest of the paragraph places the statement into context. Good ole semantics, gotta love it.

 

[2A_Tom]

So, once you consider it unloaded, do you still handle it safely or do you wantonly violate the actual safe gun handling rules?

No. No one else around me KNOWS that it is clear. Like the guy who shot me was sure it wasn't loaded, he even told me so after he shot me.

 

[Wild Deuce]

I thought of posting a sarcastic comment but I don't think it would contribute much. Instead ...

I've shared this before and this seems like a good place as any to share it again:

When it comes to teaching others about guns and gun safety, I prefer to deal with the truth. I think the "traditional" rule number one ("Treat every gun as if it's loaded") is a dangerous crutch to lean on since it is based on a lie or relies on an illusion. Telling lies or relying on lies (no matter how well intentioned) cuts into your credibility as an instructor and insults the student's intelligence. More importantly it subconsciously sets up the premise that an unloaded gun can be treated differently than a loaded gun. I'm not a psychology major and I don't think you need to be one to understand that setting up an illogical dichotomy in a student's mind is not conducive to promoting safe behavior.

Besides, there are times when you must do things with an unloaded gun that you would not do with a loaded gun (cleaning, dry-fire practice, practice drawing from concealment, function check, etc.). How can the student reconcile those actions with traditional Rule #1 when deep down, in the logical part of his brain, he knows that the gun is unloaded (otherwise he would never, in a million years be doing those things)?

Thankfully I don't have to reinvent the wheel. Here is a man that understands and is much more eloquent than me:

On Safety

Safety Rules. Again. Until everyone gets them.

When are we going to give up on this "Rule One" nonsense?

For the record, here's what I emphasize with my new shooters:

1. Keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction no matter if the gun is loaded or unloaded.
2. Finger off the trigger no matter if the gun is loaded or unloaded until you have made the conscious decision to make the shot.
3. Be aware of your target and everything downrange no matter if the gun is loaded or unloaded.
4. Know the condition of your weapon (is it loaded or unloaded?) for the sole purpose of confirming that the gun is loaded. In other words, you only confirm a loaded gun. You do not confirm an unloaded gun (an irrelevant condition).

I also tell my shooters that my Rule 1 will save them if they forget all the other rules.

If you are a die-hard supporter of "Traditional Rule Number 1" but really want to understand the "other side" of this monthly INGO debate, please follow the links. If you still disagree, fine ... we'll disagree. I will not mock you or belittle you if you need "Traditional Rule Number 1" to maintain your safety. Use it if it helps.

 

[FiveFiveSix]

Happened to me when I was talking to an employee at LGS. Some guy came in to sell his pistol, employee next to us cleared the weapon and the shell came out and landed on the counter. Me and the employee with whom I was speaking to just kinda looked at each other and shook our heads.

 

[ATM]

No. No one else around me KNOWS that it is clear. Like the guy who shot me was sure it wasn't loaded, he even told me so after he shot me.

So, you practice safe gun handling even with unloaded guns, which is good.

Is there any reason for you to then pretend that they're still loaded? Does it add anything to your safe gun handling?

 

[2A_Tom]

Why would you practice safe gun handling with an unloaded gun? It is still a chunk of plastic.

 

[ATM]

Why would you practice safe gun handling with an unloaded gun? It is still a chunk of plastic.

Perhaps I misunderstood your previous response. If you only handle loaded guns safely then please continue to pretend they're always loaded even after you clear them.

 

[oldpink]

Let me just say that I have yet to hear of anyone who was shot with a gun when obeying Rule #1.
The cases of people shot after violating that exact same rule are legion.

 

[ATM]

Let me just say that I have yet to hear of anyone who was shot with a gun when obeying Rule #1.
The cases of people shot after violating that exact same rule are legion.

It is impossible to obey or violate Cooper's old rule #1, since it isn't a rule at all. Countless people who could repeat it verbatim shoot themselves and others regularly, we've all heard about them and so have you.

If you meant the more widely accepted NRA rule #1 (akin to Cooper's #2), I absolutely agree, keeping guns pointed in a safe direction is the golden rule and following it prevents tragedies.

 

[TangoSierraEcho]

I had a friend of mine hand me his new gun because he wanted to know what I thought of it. He told me as he handed it to me that it wasn't loaded. Mind you when he handed it to me he did so by pointing at me. I calmly explained to him how you should always point a gun in a safe direction and not at your friend who will beat you with it, to which he responded again that it wasn't loaded. I took it pointed it in a safe direction, took the magazine out and pulled the slide back and there it was in all its 9mm glory flying through the air on its way to the floor. I will never forget the look on my friends face.

I was taught the rules as Col. Cooper laid them out but I see what ATM and others are saying and it makes sense. What is unfortunate and what I have come to find more and more is that rules are only as good as those willing to follow them (forget interpreting them). While many will continue to debate the "always loaded" rule the fact remains that too many people don't follow any rules.

 

[oldpink]

It is impossible to obey or violate Cooper's old rule #1, since it isn't a rule at all. Countless people who could repeat it verbatim shoot themselves and others regularly, we've all heard about them and so have you.

If you meant the more widely accepted NRA rule #1 (akin to Cooper's #2), I absolutely agree, keeping guns pointed in a safe direction is the golden rule and following it prevents tragedies.

You are being pedantic.
If you treat every gun as if it were loaded, then you are not pointing it in an unsafe direction.
Please, get off this semantic jihad.

 

[JettaKnight]

You are being pedantic.

Safety is often a result of a pedantic trainer, drill sergeant or father.

If you treat every gun as if it were loaded, then you are not pointing it in an unsafe direction.

Please explain: are you stating this because there is another rule, that is instructive, that is dictating safe behavior?

Please, get off this semantic jihad.

There's too many tragedies due to "unloaded" guns to let this go. A set of firm, direct and unambiguous rules are necessary; the word "loaded" should be omitted from gun handling rules. Chicanery and mental gymnastics are unwarranted. Simply stop considering if the gun is loaded or not and treat it as a gun.

 

[Bucky623]

A customer wanted to show me his varmint rifle. He took it out of his truck and handed it to me. I unlocked the bolt and opened it about half way. He said “No no no. Don’t open that.” He didn’t want the loaded round to get lost in the grass. His reasoning was “I always keep my guns loaded. That way there’s on question”.

 

[MTC]

I will break a personal rule just to comment on what I see as the most important points on this topic.

I see rule one as a psychological mindset for the other 3.

Yes. Doesn't matter whether one calls it a rule, dictum, mantra, etc.

The 4 rules are a mindset, not an algorithm.

Yes. Mindset. Mindset. Mindset.

If folks would follow and promote the Four Rules of Safe Firearms Handling, as opposed to looking for excuses not to, there would be no accidents.

... or negligent discharges.


(bolded for emphasis and cannot rep you again at this time)

 

[oldpink]

Safety is often a result of a pedantic trainer, drill sergeant or father.

Except that ATM and you are being pedantic in the opposite direction from what has been learned over centuries of experience.

Please explain: are you stating this because there is another rule, that is instructive, that is dictating safe behavior?

If you're treating a gun at all times as loaded, you will instinctively not point it at someone else or otherwise point it in an unsafe direction, or put your finger on the trigger.
The other rules are only explanatory and additive to the first.

There's too many tragedies due to "unloaded" guns to let this go. A set of firm, direct and unambiguous rules are necessary; the word "loaded" should be omitted from gun handling rules. Chicanery and mental gymnastics are unwarranted. Simply stop considering if the gun is loaded or not and treat it as a gun.

Give me one example of someone accidentally shot with a gun that was consistently treated at all times as loaded.
I'll wait.

 

[crispy]

Was watching the Olympics these past two weeks. Many a shooter had his shotgun like this:

Pointed right at the crowd...

Are all guns always loaded?

Maybe you should correct him?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Pointed right at the crowd...

Are all guns always loaded?

Maybe you should correct him?

Or arrest him. It is a crime to point a firearm at another without cause.

Yes, you treat the gun as always loaded. Even if you are an Olympian and have a beard.

This is not difficult. It is habituation. You get in the habit of not being a moron and you won't be a moron.

 

[oldpink]

Was watching the Olympics these past two weeks. Many a shooter had his shotgun like this:

Pointed right at the crowd...

Are all guns always loaded?

Maybe you should correct him?

Total straw man.
Both shotguns are broken open, fingers are nowhere near the trigger guard, let alone the trigger.
There are two layers of safety that make it impossible for either shotgun to fire right there, and they're not really pointing them at each other.
Get back with me when you can find a photo of either guy with the action closed and with it pointed at someone.
I'll wait.

 

[OutdoorDad]

If it's unloaded, it's only a misdemeanor.