Safe or not safe? Check out this Range Instructor...

[NyleRN]

 

[MrAverage]

I'm a novice shooter and watching that video made me question getting formal training. Judging by quick and consistent safety feedback from this group is comforting though. I'm hoping one of the real perks of the group is having solid referrals for safe instruction.

 

[EPeter213]

I've heard a lot of good reviews about Parabellum in Avon. In fact I spoke to my brother yeasterday and he and his wife have been there for classes and really enjoyed them. Best of all, at least one of the instructors is a regular here on INGO.

I'm a novice shooter myself, and planning to drive up from the Louisville area for a class or two as scheduling permits.

 

[chezuki]

Anyone know who it is?

My money is on TR.

Sure looks like their infamous range.

 

[chezuki]

I can't help but laugh at the "I would have punched the instructor" comments.

Keyboard bravado at it's finest.

 

[NyleRN]

My money is on TR.

Sure looks like their infamous range.

 

[Woobie]

I think it's important that those with handicaps (other than certain mental handicaps and legal blindness) ought to receive defensive firearms training. Someone in a wheel chair like this fellow is probably at a higher risk for muggings than the average individual.

Ideally an instructor would identify the hazards of his range and either offer the handicapped a one on one session (which may not be possible), politely decline his business and refer him to an instructor with better facilities, or find a way to adapt his own facilities to accommodate the customer. None of this is ideal, and it may not make business sense for him. Dead customers also don't make business sense.

Having failed basic foresight, he needs to identify the hazard on the spot and call a ceasefire. Pull the guy off the line and offer him a refund or a private session. I know this is a losing proposition, but, once again, so is having a customer shot.

 

[Doublehelix]

Why does it seem so obvious to everyone in this thread, but no one seemed bothered in the slightest at that range? I don't get it... are they *all* morons? Very weird that this could actually happen somewhere and no one called B.S. at the time. The ROs seem oblivious to the obvious.

 

[actaeon277]

I'm a novice shooter and watching that video made me question getting formal training. Judging by quick and consistent safety feedback from this group is comforting though. I'm hoping one of the real perks of the group is having solid referrals for safe instruction.

You always need to question stuff. No matter yours, or your instructors level of knowledge.
I saw professors in college put wrong info on the board, and no one questioned it.
Well, no one until I asked the professor to explain the statement. Then, they saw their mistake. Everyone makes them.
But, what matters, is what you do with the mistake.
These professors corrected it.
But, had I not spoken up, everyone would have taken what they said as "gospel", because the professor said it.

 

[rhino]

I think it's important that those with handicaps (other than certain mental handicaps and legal blindness) ought to receive defensive firearms training. Someone in a wheel chair like this fellow is probably at a higher risk for muggings than the average individual.

Ideally an instructor would identify the hazards of his range and either offer the handicapped a one on one session (which may not be possible), politely decline his business and refer him to an instructor with better facilities, or find a way to adapt his own facilities to accommodate the customer. None of this is ideal, and it may not make business sense for him. Dead customers also don't make business sense.

Having failed basic foresight, he needs to identify the hazard on the spot and call a ceasefire. Pull the guy off the line and offer him a refund or a private session. I know this is a losing proposition, but, once again, so is having a customer shot.

Actually, it's a lot simpler than that, and there are a few options:

1. Have everyone on the line advance at the same rate they can push the wheelchair.
2. Have people move in lines with fewer students at a time, with slower movers grouped togther, etc.
3. Have students do the drill one at a time. It doesn't take that much longer and each can move at his own pace.
4. etc.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Why does it seem so obvious to everyone in this thread, but no one seemed bothered in the slightest at that range? I don't get it... are they *all* morons? Very weird that this could actually happen somewhere and no one called B.S. at the time. The ROs seem oblivious to the obvious.

one word. Sheeple. "The instructor is sanctioning the act, so it MUST be ok. A professional wouldn't put us in unnecessary danger, right?"

I too think the condition of the range is appalling. I've never seen one that trashed. Police your empties. Especially hulls.

maybe they are trying to save money on loads of gravel? Maybe they figure if they just leave the empties there it will be as good as more stones?

 

[medcoxo]

Am I wrong to comment how the instructor had all the students turn around in a circle? But yeah, all I could say was 'Ohhh Sh*t!!', when they pushed the guy in the wheel chair and his rounds were flying high left and right-- which would have been a head shot for the two folks in the other lanes. I agree, how the one instructor was;ked over and left his group un supervised while he went to help the other guy.

 

[Woobie]

Actually, it's a lot simpler than that, and there are a few options:

1. Have everyone on the line advance at the same rate they can push the wheelchair.
2. Have people move in lines with fewer students at a time, with slower movers grouped togther, etc.
3. Have students do the drill one at a time. It doesn't take that much longer and each can move at his own pace.
4. etc.

Good ideas. These should be part of the plan. But if you fail to see it ahead of time, a ceasefire needs to be called and adjustments made.

 

[Wild Deuce]

*

 

[Rookie]

My money is on TR.

Sure looks like their infamous range.

I.
Am.
Shocked.

 

[Libertarian01]

Folks, that is a MANUAL wheelchair. It would be physically IMPOSSIBLE to "advance" on a target while firing.

So what does a professional trainer do? He/she would MODIFY the training for that subset of individuals who cannot physically perform an action.

Those who have certain disabilities find workarounds to all sorts of problems from opening and closing doors to the simple act of getting dressed. They can get the same things done but they do it in another way.

On this particular gentlemans wheelchair you will note two (2) distinctive features. First, the front tires are very small. Not just small, but VERY small. These kinds of tires are not designed for cross-country travel. This is like wearing flip-flops to hike a wilderness trail for ten (10) miles. Second, the chair does not have any handles on the back of it. This design of chair is, I believe, for someone who is capable of getting around in their own chair and does not need any help getting pushed, unlike a stroke patient or grandma who may not have the strength. So the idiot pushing him is itself dangerous as you don't have a firm control of the wheelchair platform.

How would they train someone who had lost an arm in an accident? Have them aim their stump where it would be IF they still had their arm???

It isn't rocket science to sit down with the guy and explain what he will and will not be able to perform while in a wheelchair. You could explain the tactics desired to advance on a position and ASK him how he would do this IF he could do it at all. If he couldn't do it, fine. Work on a Plan B for him.

We are not all round or square pegs. We all have different learning styles and different limitations. The stupidity of trying to force the wrong peg in a hole with firearms training is just plain stupid beyond the pale.

I have suffered from my own stupidity. I know how a split second can change the trajectory of a life.

Regards and Merry Christmas,

Doug

 

[jstory]

But don't all those empty cases add to the coolness factor??? The way they are spread out almost looks intentional, does to me at least...

 

[littletommy]

But don't all those empty cases add to the coolness factor??? The way they are spread out almost looks intentional, does to me at least...

No, it just looks like they're too lazy to rake em up. The range at Clark state forestry is usually littered like that, hundreds, maybe thousands of shotgun hulls, it truly is a hazard to walk on.

 

[yepthatsme]

I tried to watch the video, but it looks like the link is broken now. I get the message that the account has been terminated.

 

[rhino]

Am I wrong to comment how the instructor had all the students turn around in a circle? But yeah, all I could say was 'Ohhh Sh*t!!', when they pushed the guy in the wheel chair and his rounds were flying high left and right-- which would have been a head shot for the two folks in the other lanes. I agree, how the one instructor was;ked over and left his group un supervised while he went to help the other guy.

The rotation while standing in place with the pistol pointed upward like that is taught by a few programs. Some find it acceptable. I don't see it as a huge range safety issue, but I believe there are several better ways to accomplish the task of scanning all the way around you and it's not hard to find people who have much more impressive resumes than I have who agree with me.

Good ideas. These should be part of the plan. But if you fail to see it ahead of time, a ceasefire needs to be called and adjustments made.

Agree 100%.