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Should Indiana deer hunters be allowed to use high-powered rifles.
- Thread starter greg
- Start date
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I would vote NO. My opinion is that any type of shot over 100 yards is not hunting, but target practice. Granted, I have never hunted in Indiana, but done my fair share in central Illinois. Also before the question comes about, my furthest shot was under 35 yards.
Guess you did that with a selfbow whittled from a tree out back. Too friggin' cool.
Some of us hunt different types of ground, use different techniques... and can actually shoot well past spittin' distance.
I would vote NO. My opinion is that any type of shot over 100 yards is not hunting, but target practice. Granted, I have never hunted in Indiana, but done my fair share in central Illinois. Also before the question comes about, my furthest shot was under 35 yards.
And I support your right to hunt in this way. All I ask is that you support my right to take "target practice" with equipment that can reliably and humanely take a deer. I'm a pretty decent shot, and I'm pretty confident in my ability to discern what is a good shot, whether that be too much brush, no backstop behind the target, etc. No might make sense for you, but it doesn't for me. Why put your self-imposed limitations on me?
At normal gas prices making for 30-40 bucks in gas per trip to the hunting ground.................ammo cost doesn't mean diddly to me.
I suppose I could put BSA scopes on my rigs, instead of Leupolds.
Maybe I should hunt lesser ground closer to home.
And use a PVC bow instead of something decent.
I'm all for saving money, esp in this economy..................but ammo cost doesn't compute. Practice? The fundamentals are the same per rig...............no need to do much more than check zero and hit it IMHO.
If you just want to learn the recoil/trigger.................don't need to rip the $ slugs.
You can practice with cheaper ammo/rigs if one needs to.
I suppose I could put BSA scopes on my rigs, instead of Leupolds.
Maybe I should hunt lesser ground closer to home.
And use a PVC bow instead of something decent.
I'm all for saving money, esp in this economy..................but ammo cost doesn't compute. Practice? The fundamentals are the same per rig...............no need to do much more than check zero and hit it IMHO.
If you just want to learn the recoil/trigger.................don't need to rip the $ slugs.
You can practice with cheaper ammo/rigs if one needs to.
avboiler11
Master
I can't fathom ever telling a hunter that they don't need to practice with the weapon/ammunition combination they plan to hunt with.
Sure you can practice "fundamentals" with a different long arm - that's the whole point of a "trainer" rifle - but a sportsman owes it to their game to be competent with their weapon of choice (whatever it may be) and part of that competency involves a bit more time on the trigger than 2 or 3 shots at a pie plate prior to going into the woods.
Would one be so cavalier if somebody were using, say, a 338 Win Mag instead of a 12 gauge slug gun?
Sure you can practice "fundamentals" with a different long arm - that's the whole point of a "trainer" rifle - but a sportsman owes it to their game to be competent with their weapon of choice (whatever it may be) and part of that competency involves a bit more time on the trigger than 2 or 3 shots at a pie plate prior to going into the woods.
Would one be so cavalier if somebody were using, say, a 338 Win Mag instead of a 12 gauge slug gun?
If you're not in the groove rather quickly, you probably don't have a groove. Practice might help get you one. But I've seen too many who shoot a lot and still suck.
Back when I slug gun hunted my favorite was the WW HI Supreme, expensive and in short supply. I had a good stash (one lot #) but I didn't waste them on trigger familiarity exercises. That was with the reg BRI stuff at half the price.
I maybe shot 2-3 boxes of slugs to check at 50 and 100 and was good to go.
No pie plates either, and no friggin' lead sled.
I've shot enough over the years that IMHO it's like riding a bike......it aint difficult. No need for a yearly pound fest at the bench.
FWIW I used to shoot recurves a lot............and it took a substantial amount of practice to learn and maintain. But injuries forced a change, so this yr I shot very little, but did find an anchor/system that allowed for good groups, consistency.......with much lesser practice.
Worked fine.
No doubt all that stuff done yrs ago still factors in.
But unless a complete flub and or newb..............it aint that hard. One can spend too much time and or $ just burning range time and not learning anything.
Some folks are those weirdo purists who claim "only the first shot counts" and think that 1 shot a day (bow) is how to practice.
I think something decent lies in the middle of such extremes, and shifted a bit to one side.
Fudds proly shift it way to the other, and maybe don't get enough good feedback.
Most folks suck as people, and at shooting. Just the way it is.
Back when I slug gun hunted my favorite was the WW HI Supreme, expensive and in short supply. I had a good stash (one lot #) but I didn't waste them on trigger familiarity exercises. That was with the reg BRI stuff at half the price.
I maybe shot 2-3 boxes of slugs to check at 50 and 100 and was good to go.
No pie plates either, and no friggin' lead sled.
I've shot enough over the years that IMHO it's like riding a bike......it aint difficult. No need for a yearly pound fest at the bench.
FWIW I used to shoot recurves a lot............and it took a substantial amount of practice to learn and maintain. But injuries forced a change, so this yr I shot very little, but did find an anchor/system that allowed for good groups, consistency.......with much lesser practice.
Worked fine.
No doubt all that stuff done yrs ago still factors in.
But unless a complete flub and or newb..............it aint that hard. One can spend too much time and or $ just burning range time and not learning anything.
Some folks are those weirdo purists who claim "only the first shot counts" and think that 1 shot a day (bow) is how to practice.
I think something decent lies in the middle of such extremes, and shifted a bit to one side.
Fudds proly shift it way to the other, and maybe don't get enough good feedback.
Most folks suck as people, and at shooting. Just the way it is.
Makes about much sense as some of the arguments made in this thread.
Some of the attitudes about this surprise me. Eerily similar to the "I don't have an AR, so banning them wouldn't bother me" attitude.
I grew up in Missouri (very similar terrain as Indiana...thick brush to areas so flat you can see the back of your head), and have killed 12 deer with a .30-30, .270, .30-06, and .308. My first was when I was 12. I've never missed a deer (all shots from 25-150 yards), and only had 2 move out of their tracks. Most of the group I hunt with shoot 2 shots a year...one to verify zero, and one through the heart/lungs. I've hunted with them for 10-12 years, and haven't seen any of them miss on about 60 deer during that time.
The hunters making consistent clean shots now will be making those same shots with a .308 next year if it passes. The yayhoos gut shooting deer and emptying their gun at a deer in a full sprint at 100 will be doing that'll no matter what's in their hands.
It's not a big deal. It won't be blood in the streets. Yahoos with a 12 gauge are yahoos with a .308. I don't want to hunt near them regardless. Skilled shooters with a max range of 100 yards with a good slug will have their range extended by a couple hundred yards.
I grew up in Missouri (very similar terrain as Indiana...thick brush to areas so flat you can see the back of your head), and have killed 12 deer with a .30-30, .270, .30-06, and .308. My first was when I was 12. I've never missed a deer (all shots from 25-150 yards), and only had 2 move out of their tracks. Most of the group I hunt with shoot 2 shots a year...one to verify zero, and one through the heart/lungs. I've hunted with them for 10-12 years, and haven't seen any of them miss on about 60 deer during that time.
The hunters making consistent clean shots now will be making those same shots with a .308 next year if it passes. The yayhoos gut shooting deer and emptying their gun at a deer in a full sprint at 100 will be doing that'll no matter what's in their hands.
It's not a big deal. It won't be blood in the streets. Yahoos with a 12 gauge are yahoos with a .308. I don't want to hunt near them regardless. Skilled shooters with a max range of 100 yards with a good slug will have their range extended by a couple hundred yards.
Just catching up.
Okay consider this a bump sort of because I want to see if anyone has heard anything more about it.
On the flip side I will state my point on the entire argument. YES they should allow it. There are several reasons that NONE of the arguments against it can hold water.
1) With smokeless muzzle loaders and the 458 Hoosier we are already at 400 yards with a "Legal" deer round.
2) With the 450 Bushmaster and the 458 SOCOM we already have the "SCARY BLACK GUNS" in the woods with NO capacity regulations.
3) "Backstop?" You can hunt squirrels with a 50 BMG if you want to with NO BACKSTOP!
4) Coyote hunting....Enough said here!!!!! Typically FLAT farmland sitting in a ground blind! At least a LOT of deer hunters are in a tree stand with a downward trajectory.
5) Most of the ground I hunt is fairly dense. I am no expert but I would think a lighter bullet would loose energy faster clipping limbs and branches and a 1oz slug? This last statement may not be true and if it is not I would love for someone to educate me and help to make me smarter on this last point. Not the first four though because like my wife I KNOW I AM RIGHT and you are WRONG!
It ALL boils down to responsible hunters making smart choices! There will always be Joe Bob keep shooting until it drops, but at least with the high power it will be two to three shots instead 5 or 10!......seems safer to me after the last argument?
Okay consider this a bump sort of because I want to see if anyone has heard anything more about it.
On the flip side I will state my point on the entire argument. YES they should allow it. There are several reasons that NONE of the arguments against it can hold water.
1) With smokeless muzzle loaders and the 458 Hoosier we are already at 400 yards with a "Legal" deer round.
2) With the 450 Bushmaster and the 458 SOCOM we already have the "SCARY BLACK GUNS" in the woods with NO capacity regulations.
3) "Backstop?" You can hunt squirrels with a 50 BMG if you want to with NO BACKSTOP!
4) Coyote hunting....Enough said here!!!!! Typically FLAT farmland sitting in a ground blind! At least a LOT of deer hunters are in a tree stand with a downward trajectory.
5) Most of the ground I hunt is fairly dense. I am no expert but I would think a lighter bullet would loose energy faster clipping limbs and branches and a 1oz slug? This last statement may not be true and if it is not I would love for someone to educate me and help to make me smarter on this last point. Not the first four though because like my wife I KNOW I AM RIGHT and you are WRONG!
It ALL boils down to responsible hunters making smart choices! There will always be Joe Bob keep shooting until it drops, but at least with the high power it will be two to three shots instead 5 or 10!......seems safer to me after the last argument?
I grew up in Pennsylvania where rifles have been legal forever, it seems. They teach in hunter safety classes to always ensure you have a backstop behind your target. As long as the fluorescent orange rules are enforced, I don't have a problem with rifles. I like the idea of using a scoped rifle...if I can ensure a quick safe kill, I'm in.
ChootEm, I've seen lengthy articles confirming your speculation about high powered rifle bullets disintegrating when striking hard objects, including limbs.
Shotgun slugs also have the added liability of being very prone to ricochet, as is the supposedly "safe" .22 LR, btw.
Shotgun slugs also have the added liability of being very prone to ricochet, as is the supposedly "safe" .22 LR, btw.
Thanks for the information and sharing your knowledge with the rest of the class. It made sense to me just based on mass, speed, and bullet composition but I never spent the time to actually research the topic.
Yes, high-powered rifles have the ability to shoot flatter, what a shock, but to compare someone overshooting a target range berm to someone else in ordinary field conditions shooting at deer -- especially if shooting from an elevated position such as a tree stand -- is just plain ridiculous.
News flash: If you overshoot a berm, you are by definition shooting at a far greater angle upward than you ever would be in a normal hunting situation.
To compare a yahoo at a gun range who refuses to of hit the backstop to someone else hunting deer on normal topography is not even an apples to oranges comparison.
That's not science; that's silly.
News flash: If you overshoot a berm, you are by definition shooting at a far greater angle upward than you ever would be in a normal hunting situation.
To compare a yahoo at a gun range who refuses to of hit the backstop to someone else hunting deer on normal topography is not even an apples to oranges comparison.
That's not science; that's silly.
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