SIG P226 or CZ75...or M9?

[shootersix]

I have owned a Sig, and for the money, I would not own another. I use a CZ for shooting USPSA matches, and I don't regret my choice. By the way, you can buy Mecgar mags for the CZ for $22 most places. Mecgar is the OEM manufacture for CZ. If you buy mags that say CZ in the description, you will pay $20 more for the same mag.

mec gar makes sig mags too, and ruger,and beretta, and well just about everybody's eles's mags, i own a 4 sigs and love them, i'd like to own a cz someday, they are nice guns, i have a saying, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and the most flattered handguns in the world are the 1911,browning highpower, and the cz75

If sig sauer would've had a US based manufacturing plant in 1985, our troops would be carrying a P226 instead of the M9. Just food for thought

not true!, they would have won the contract IF they were 20.00 cheaper! the beratta was cheaper than the sig by 20.00, and over the life of the contract and the # of pistols purchased that added to a LOT of taxpayer money

PLUS the us goverment wanted to put missile's in italy,and since beretta got a lot of money out of the contract, beretta "infulenced" the goverment to allow it

 

[BehindBlueI's]

The CZ 75 offers what Col. Cooper called "selective double action." It can be carried in Condition One, with the safety engaged, or in Condition Two, and the double action trigger will cock and fire the weapon. Neither the Sig nor the Beretta offer this feature.

I don't see how that's a positive. Who changes up their carry mode from single action to double action routinely? Train with one, use one. The CZ safety is also small and stiff, making it easy to swipe past and not deactivate when under time pressure.

High bore axis, mediocre ergos, crappy trigger.

Crappy trigger? That's a rare complaint for a Sig. Especially the newer ones with the SRT are great DA/SA triggers. Bore axis, meh, every hammer fired gun is "high bore axis" and I'm not sure what measureable affect that actually has. Ergonomics will vary from person to person. The only complaint most people have is riding the slide stop, which is a real issue for many.

 

[throttletony]

The CZ 75 offers what Col. Cooper called "selective double action." It can be carried in Condition One, with the safety engaged, or in Condition Two, and the double action trigger will cock and fire the weapon. Neither the Sig nor the Beretta offer this feature.

Good thread so far.
I don't own either, so please correct me if I'm wrong -- for the Sigs (at least in competition) they start hammer down and it's a DA to SA after first round is popped, right? So the difference you're explaining above is mostly about carrying it in condition 1? Other than that, the functionality is very similar, right?

(genuine queston) How do/would most people carry the Sig and the CZ for duty/self-defense? In other words, is it possible/safe to carry a Sig in condition 1?

 

[LCSOSgt11]

For a Sig 226 sans manual safety, there is no "Condition One" as stated. "Condition One" refers to a round in the chamber, hammer cocked, and manual safety activated. A cocked Sig with a round in the chamber would be considered "Condition Zero".

As far as the pistol choice goes, "one pays their money and takes their choice".

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Good thread so far.
I don't own either, so please correct me if I'm wrong -- for the Sigs (at least in competition) they start hammer down and it's a DA to SA after first round is popped, right? So the difference you're explaining above is mostly about carrying it in condition 1? Other than that, the functionality is very similar, right?

(genuine queston) How do/would most people carry the Sig and the CZ for duty/self-defense? In other words, is it possible/safe to carry a Sig in condition 1?

Sig's "standard" trigger is DA/SA.

"Optional" triggers are:
SAO
DAO
DAK (a version of DAO that had two reset points, with the shorter reset equalling a heavier trigger pull. Its counter-intuitive at first blush, but was designed to perform well under stress. Folks who look into that sort of thing noticed shooters' cyclical rate goes through the roof in deadly force encounters, not letting the gun settle back down before pulling the trigger again. DAK is designed to shoot "normally" under low stress shooting, but to intentionally slow you down a bit when you're running it like a sewing machine.)

Options for the triggers:
Short reach (shortens how far forward your trigger finger must go to touch the trigger face)
Short reset (version of DA/SA that shortens how far forward the trigger must move after the shot to hit the reset point to be ready to fire again)

SOOOO, it's possible to get a Sig you can carry condition 1, but you must get a SAO version.

 

[Birds Away]

I don't see how that's a positive. Who changes up their carry mode from single action to double action routinely? Train with one, use one. The CZ safety is also small and stiff, making it easy to swipe past and not deactivate when under time pressure.



Crappy trigger? That's a rare complaint for a Sig. Especially the newer ones with the SRT are great DA/SA triggers. Bore axis, meh, every hammer fired gun is "high bore axis" and I'm not sure what measureable affect that actually has. Ergonomics will vary from person to person. The only complaint most people have is riding the slide stop, which is a real issue for many.

My apologies for offering a contrary opinion. Not sure what I was thinking.

 

[1775usmarine]

S&W 5906. Excellent stainless steel value at 350 with a great trigger reset.

 

[Rob377]

I don't see how that's a positive. Who changes up their carry mode from single action to double action routinely? Train with one, use one. The CZ safety is also small and stiff, making it easy to swipe past and not deactivate when under time pressure.



Crappy trigger? That's a rare complaint for a Sig. Especially the newer ones with the SRT are great DA/SA triggers. Bore axis, meh, every hammer fired gun is "high bore axis" and I'm not sure what measureable affect that actually has. Ergonomics will vary from person to person. The only complaint most people have is riding the slide stop, which is a real issue for many.

not as rare as you might think. The trigger is one of the primary reasons no one really uses a SIG in competition, and the few that do have spent a whole lot of money having Bruce Gray completely rejigger the internals.

The bore axis thing is very much overblown, for sure.

 

[rvb]

sig triggers (classic sigs anyway, eg 226, 220), while just kinda 'meh' and pretty much on-par w/ any other DA auto out there from the factory, were one of the easiest triggers to turn into awesome that I've ever messed with. I worked on a buddy's a few years back, and w/ not a ton of work I had it ~4lb DA and 1.5lb SA and it was stupid smooth and was lighting factory WWB (not even the gamer Fed #100s I was running in my 92 ).

If not for the fact the controls are in the wrong places (I can't shoot them freestyle w/o riding the slide release, and I can't shoot them SHO w/o decocking after about every shot), I might have switched to them from my 92.

If you go Beretta, get one of the G models... no stupid slide safety.

-rvb

 

[Expat]

My P220 compact is a SAO model. Trigger is just as good as on my 1911s.
The P320 has been highly praised by lots of reviewers as one of the best striker fired triggers out there.
The rest of them, once you get used to the DA first pull are excellent. I especially like the short reset on my M11-A1.

 

[RMShambaugh]

M9

 

[BehindBlueI's]

My apologies for offering a contrary opinion. Not sure what I was thinking.

My apologies for offering a rebuttal. We good now?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

not as rare as you might think. The trigger is one of the primary reasons no one really uses a SIG in competition, and the few that do have spent a whole lot of money having Bruce Gray completely rejigger the internals.

The bore axis thing is very much overblown, for sure.

I don't know poo about competitor's guns, that's for sure. Real world use and race guns aren't really same-same, though are they?

 

[rvb]

I don't know poo about competitor's guns, that's for sure. Real world use and race guns aren't really same-same, though are they?

I don't know anyone who would consider most sigs to be "race guns," but there are folks who race with factory guns... and sigs aren't very popular with that crowd*.

* granted the last couple years that crowd has gravitated to more factory race guns, but even prior to that trend sigs were never popular. berettas and CZs/clones have had some time in the competition spotlight....

-rvb

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I don't know anyone who would consider most sigs to be "race guns," but there are folks who race with factory guns... and sigs aren't very popular with that crowd*.

* granted the last couple years that crowd has gravitated to more factory race guns, but even prior to that trend sigs were never popular. berettas and CZs/clones have had some time in the competition spotlight....

-rvb

Aren't the X5 and the like geared toward race gun? Seriously, I am asking. I know very little about competitive shooting.

 

[rvb]

Aren't the X5 and the like geared toward race gun? Seriously, I am asking. I know very little about competitive shooting.

there are different competition divisions. Similar to taking a production Mustang to a race track you probably wouldn't compete in the same division as a Formula 1 car, production/service type guns do not officially compete against race guns. A 226 would not compete against an X5.

you can buy a G17/M9/P226/CZ-75/USP9/XD9/etc off the shelf and go race with it against other non-race guns. The guys who compete in those divisions generally don't choose the Sigs or HKs.

I can't think of any attribute that would make me choose a gun for defensive/duty that I wouldn't choose for competition (other than reliability, and I have pretty high reliability expectations for my competition guns). If a trigger sucks for competition, it'll suck for "the streetz." If ergos suck for competition, they'll suck for "the streetz."

-rvb

 

[sig1473]

I think I've seen this thread before....................God forbid you say anything bad about a CZ If you say anything good about a Sig, well you are just wrong because "experts" don't agree with it. A lot of hypocrisy on here that makes me laugh.

 

[kawtech87]

I think I've seen this thread before....................God forbid you say anything bad about a CZ If you say anything good about a Sig,

Meh, it's the same old song and dance. 1911 vs Glock, CZ vs Sig. Pick one shoot it, pick another who cares?

 

[sig1473]

Meh, it's the same old song and dance. 1911 vs Glock, CZ vs Sig. Pick one shoot it, pick another who cares?

I couldn't agree more

 

[Nacho Man]

I had a CZ75B and a 92FS Compact, great guns but sold them. Much happier with my Browning Hi Power now.