SWAT invades innocent man's home - Burns it down with a flashbang - Father killed

[E5RANGER375]

The problem isn't with the SWAT teams. It's in how they're deployed.

SWAT is necessary in dealing with things like barricaded suspects (real ones, not imaginary) and hostage situations. Back in the day when I was on the street in Cincinnati our team might deploy once or twice a year.

The drug war has poured seized money into LEO agencies allowing them to buy stuff they don't need. Small departments send their personnel to SWAT training, then have no true SWAT situations for years on end.

The solution is to CREATE a need for SWAT by turning routine duties into a SWAT situation.

In my day the idea of sending SWAT to execute a search or arrest warrant, even for a murder suspect, would have been considered laughable. We just didn't do it. SWAT stands for SPECIAL weapons and tactics.

There is nothing SPECIAL about serving a warrant. You go up and you knock on the bad man's door. If he doesn't open it you kick it in, and you go in and get him. I did it dozens of times in my career and never required SWAT to do it.

SWAT must be returned to its origins wherein SWAT deployment becomes a RARE occurence, as it should be, rather than a ROUTINE one as it is now.

ok, i can agree with this.

 

[Duncan]

The problem isn't with the SWAT teams. It's in how they're deployed.

SWAT is necessary in dealing with things like barricaded suspects (real ones, not imaginary) and hostage situations. Back in the day when I was on the street in Cincinnati our team might deploy once or twice a year.

The drug war has poured seized money into LEO agencies allowing them to buy stuff they don't need. Small departments send their personnel to SWAT training, then have no true SWAT situations for years on end.

The solution is to CREATE a need for SWAT by turning routine duties into a SWAT situation.

In my day the idea of sending SWAT to execute a search or arrest warrant, even for a murder suspect, would have been considered laughable. We just didn't do it. SWAT stands for SPECIAL weapons and tactics.

There is nothing SPECIAL about serving a warrant. You go up and you knock on the bad man's door. If he doesn't open it you kick it in, and you go in and get him. I did it dozens of times in my career and never required SWAT to do it.

SWAT must be returned to its origins wherein SWAT deployment becomes a RARE occurence, as it should be, rather than a ROUTINE one as it is now.

Thank you for some honesty and reason .
Duncan

 

[MACHINEGUN]

The American Gestapo.. gotta love them!

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

anyone else here see the potential irony in that a few members complain about the cops wearing camo, having body armor and carrying AR (platform) rifles when many (of the same?) members carry the exact same thing in their cars "just in case."

when a cop, whose job it is to go FIND bad guys, wears camo, it's evidence of JB thuggery and Statism. But when an INGO member does it while cruising around Carmel, it's just "being prepared" or "expressing 2A rights"?

carry on.

Should this have been in purple?

The reason police should wear uniform, is because the uniform identifies them as an officer. Society views someone in an officer's uniform as a police officer. If someone runs through my door dressed like an officer, they will likely not get shot. If someone runs through my door dressed in camo from head to toe, them being an officer is not apparent.

And to clarify, green camo is not the best choice in an urban environment. If you are going to drive onto someones lawn in an armored personnel carrier, hop out with a bullhorn, and breach the entrance - camo is not helpful. I just do not understand any time that camo would be helpful to swat - do they plan on hiding in the woods and waiting for criminals to pass?

What we have here, are cops playing dress up - not rational "tactical" attire.

 

[LPMan59]

just to get a feel here (and no, i'm being a jerk about it),

all officers should be in beat uniforms all the time? were the bullhorns calling for the guy to come out not a give away? can we be sure there were no "normal" vehicles parked in front of the house in addition to the APC-type thing?

i'm not necessarily disagreeing with anyone, i just chuckled a little at the notion of these cops playing dressup, but guys on the internet who do the same thing minus the law enforcement aren't.

eta: why is it that anytime there is an anti-gun story, we all question the bias/motive of the writer, but we waste no time in breaking out the rope when it's a LE incident? It certainly appears the five oh really overreacted, but is it not possible there's more to this story?

 

[public servant]

i'm not necessarily disagreeing with anyone, i just chuckled a little at the notion of these cops playing dressup, but guys on the internet who do the same thing minus the law enforcement aren't.

For what it's worth...I saw the humor in your post.

 

[LPMan59]

For what it's worth...I saw the humor in your post.

i dont own an camo or "tactical" pants, but i did have a rifle in my trunk for a spell. I told myself I was just being prepared in the event some **** went down, but in reality i just didnt want my wife to find it.

 

[6birds]

but in reality i just didnt want my wife to find it.

That's the real reason i look at a Rambone post, the sarcasm is great!

Thanks guys, I needed the laugh.

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

just to get a feel here (and no, i'm being a jerk about it),

all officers should be in beat uniforms all the time? were the bullhorns calling for the guy to come out not a give away? can we be sure there were no "normal" vehicles parked in front of the house in addition to the APC-type thing?

i'm not necessarily disagreeing with anyone, i just chuckled a little at the notion of these cops playing dressup, but guys on the internet who do the same thing minus the law enforcement aren't.

eta: why is it that anytime there is an anti-gun story, we all question the bias/motive of the writer, but we waste no time in breaking out the rope when it's a LE incident? It certainly appears the five oh really overreacted, but is it not possible there's more to this story?

Maybe you can give a reason why they should be in green camos. I have given a reason to be in marked uniform, so why not always be in uniform when conducting official business? Plus, swat already has a commonly identified uniform... Mostly tactical gear with SWAT in giant white letters everywhere... Why camo?

You obviously think it is funny for other citizens to walk around in camos...

Aren't both a little silly, and playing dress up? When is an urban swat team going to prone in the forest?

Someone else doing something silly, is no reason for law enforcement to do something silly. We generally hope we picked people that can conduct themselves respectfully, and not make themselves the laughing stock of internet jokes. Apparently, sometimes we fail.

 

[LPMan59]

Maybe you can give a reason why they should be in green camos.

You obviously think its funny for other citizens to walk around in camos...

Aren't both a little silly, and playing dress up?

i never said the cops wearing jungle camo isn't silly or over-the-top; i only chuckled at the bit of irony in pointing it out. black or navy blue seems more reasonable to me, but i have no LE experience and therefore I can't really make an informed opinion. On its face, I agree that it does seem to be very odd. Do cops sometimes need more "tactical" outfits? Maybe. Was an APC carrier with camo'd officers overkill, especially in the reported circumstances? I see that argument.

But the guys dressing in full camo at gun shows talking about SHTFTEOTWAWKIOMGBBQ apocalypse is pretty funny (to me). The cops and ATF guys can still see them.

 

[LPMan59]

caught you before the edit

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

But the guys dressing in full camo at gun shows talking about SHTFTEOTWAWKIOMGBBQ apocalypse is pretty funny (to me). The cops and ATF guys can still see them.

HAHAHA... Yes, they can still see them. The camo choices most people make will usually give me a chuckle too.

I think BOTH of them are doing this:

 

[ljadayton]

better use of camo?

sorry guys, I had to interject a little calm into this for just a second..carry on now

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

better use of camo?

sorry guys, I had to interject a little calm into this for just a second..carry on now

!!!!

Your dog was chosen to work for SWAT?!

 

[ljadayton]

!!!!

Your dog was chosen to work for SWAT?!

never see her coming would you?

 

[rambone]

anyone else here see the potential irony in that a few members complain about the cops wearing camo, having body armor and carrying AR (platform) rifles when many (of the same?) members carry the exact same thing in their cars "just in case."

when a cop, whose job it is to go FIND bad guys, wears camo, it's evidence of JB thuggery and Statism. But when an INGO member does it while cruising around Carmel, it's just "being prepared" or "expressing 2A rights"?

It must be that irrational bleeding-heart fear of martial law that the spawns the criticism of paramilitary troops breaking into houses. Turning cops into soldiers is a great first step toward that end. It conditions society on both ends of the equation to accept that behavior as normal. Not only are there far too many laws on the books, but they are enforced using gross overkill, endless tax-dollars, and an iron fist.

What is the real reason for having a 2nd Amendment? Why do some people bury guns in their backyards and fight attempts to register their firearms? It isn't because people are fearful of folks who get high on drugs. More so because of the government is full of tyrants who know no limit to their obsession with government power and societal order.

eta: why is it that anytime there is an anti-gun story, we all question the bias/motive of the writer, but we waste no time in breaking out the rope when it's a LE incident? It certainly appears the five oh really overreacted, but is it not possible there's more to this story?

Someone almost always moans about there being "more to the story" when it comes to police accountability threads. But moreso in the stories when a civilian is beaten or shot and the cameras were not rolling. Then appears the contingent who openly says that they will side with LE no matter what the circumstances and refuse to cast doubt on an officer until God himself issues His judgment.

 

[Benny]

Then there's the people who add lies to a story to make certain groups of people look worse...And when called out, they ignore it.

 

[dross]

Hey, my little Colorado town has a SWAT team, courtesy of the stimulus money. Don't say we don't need it, either. Average income way above the average for the state, very little crime to speak of. Heck, we've had four whole murders in the town's history if you don't count the Indian attacks in the very beginning.

In the late 19th century, there were two murders, both in saloons. One was a dispute over a borrowed plow, the other something similar. Last year we also had two homicides, one of which actually occurred in the year before - some sick parents killed their six year old and stuffed her in a crawlspace - and another, a self defense shooting gone bad which will probably result in a manslaughter conviction.

But by golly, we've got our own SWAT team, ready to go at a moment's notice, ninja gear and armored panel van standing ready in the night in case things get a little rowdy over to the diner.

I mean, if if saves just one life over the span of three different centuries, wouldn't it be worth it?

 

[Benny]

Hey, my little Colorado town has a SWAT team, courtesy of the stimulus money. Don't say we don't need it, either. Average income way above the average for the state, very little crime to speak of. Heck, we've had four whole murders in the town's history if you don't count the Indian attacks in the very beginning.

In the late 19th century, there were two murders, both in saloons. One was a dispute over a borrowed plow, the other something similar. Last year we also had two homicides, one of which actually occurred in the year before - some sick parents killed their six year old and stuffed her in a crawlspace - and another, a self defense shooting gone bad which will probably result in a manslaughter conviction.

But by golly, we've got our own SWAT team, ready to go at a moment's notice, ninja gear and armored panel van standing ready in the night in case things get a little rowdy over to the diner.

I mean, if if saves just one life over the span of three different centuries, wouldn't it be worth it?

OK, now THAT is funny(and by funny, I mean really ****ing stupid).

I remember when I was in grade school a dead body was found in my town...We later found out she(I think) was murdered somewhere else and dumped here...

Unfortunately, that wasn't enough for us to get a SWAT team.

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

Hey, my little Colorado town has a SWAT team, courtesy of the stimulus money. Don't say we don't need it, either. Average income way above the average for the state, very little crime to speak of. Heck, we've had four whole murders in the town's history if you don't count the Indian attacks in the very beginning.

In the late 19th century, there were two murders, both in saloons. One was a dispute over a borrowed plow, the other something similar. Last year we also had two homicides, one of which actually occurred in the year before - some sick parents killed their six year old and stuffed her in a crawlspace - and another, a self defense shooting gone bad which will probably result in a manslaughter conviction.

But by golly, we've got our own SWAT team, ready to go at a moment's notice, ninja gear and armored panel van standing ready in the night in case things get a little rowdy over to the diner.

I mean, if if saves just one life over the span of three different centuries, wouldn't it be worth it?

To the DINER! To the DINER!!