Tell me the good, the bad, and the ugly about wells, septic systems, water softeners, and water purifiers.

[Sigblaster]

I've only ever lived where I've had municipal water and sewer, and even when I worked construction, I only ever worked with muni services.

Now, as I'm sure some of you are sick of hearing about by now, I'm looking for a new home, and I might be dealing with a well and septic. Don't know much about this stuff, and I'd like to know about water softeners and purifiers too.

While google searches yield some information, I'd like to hear your stories specific to Indiana. Of course, horror stories are welcome too, especially about septic.

 

[chocktaw2]

Not at you dude, but the stories I have heard.

 

[Sigblaster]

Not at you dude, but the stories I have heard.

I've heard some too, like riding mowers and their drivers ending up in a pit of poop, or trying to have an in-ground pool installed in the wrong place.

I've also heard stories of wells drying up or getting contaminated, and those are the kinds of horror stories that aren't so funny.

But, in general, I'd like some general info on what to look for, what equipment needs to be used and maintained, and what mistakes not to make, specifically in Indiana

 

[JeepHammer]

Depends entirely on what's under your property...

This is from actual experience,

Shallow wells, like sand wells are still surface water with everything that runs off the surface or gets washed in.

It would take a heavy metals filter, a virus filter, some of the toxic farm & industrial chemicals get past about everything so a chemical filter.

I'm on sand, with a layer of coal/sulfur, so I went deep into bedrock (limestone).
That got me under the mineral water that smells like rotten eggs, the toxic heavy metals in coal, the petroleum that comes from shale...

It's hard water, but it's clean as a whistle otherwise, no nothing bad.

Waterproof clay is a nightmare for a septic system.
I didn't have that issue, but I've helped install a few on clay, we just remove a large swath and replace with something absorbent (sand, gravel, etc).

A soil sample to the county extension agent is always a good idea, and pretty cheap.
They will tell you how much leach field you need for septic in your soil,
And they can do chemical analysis to tell you what got dumped there in the last 200 years...

Leach beds are a one time cost and are horribly nasty to fix/change, I wouldn't cut any corners there.

If you have REALLY hard rock, the cost for the well might be more, it's hard on drill bits.

If you want to keep iron out of your water, the well cost goes WAY up since the casing will be stainless.
Iron will depend on what rock you hit, I hit limestone (no iron) so I kept it that way,
But I'm telling you that stainless casing hurt the budget.

 

[Sigblaster]

Depends entirely on what's under your property...

This is from actual experience,

Shallow wells, like sand wells are still surface water with everything that runs off the surface or gets washed in.

It would take a heavy metals filter, a virus filter, some of the toxic farm & industrial chemicals get past about everything so a chemical filter.

I'm on sand, with a layer of coal/sulfur, so I went deep into bedrock (limestone).
That got me under the mineral water that smells like rotten eggs, the toxic heavy metals in coal, the petroleum that comes from shale...

It's hard water, but it's clean as a whistle otherwise, no nothing bad.

Waterproof clay is a nightmare for a septic system.
I didn't have that issue, but I've helped install a few on clay, we just remove a large swath and replace with something absorbent (sand, gravel, etc).

A soil sample to the county extension agent is always a good idea, and pretty cheap.
They will tell you how much leach field you need for septic in your soil,
And they can do chemical analysis to tell you what got dumped there in the last 200 years...

Leach beds are a one time cost and are horribly nasty to fix/change, I wouldn't cut any corners there.

If you have REALLY hard rock, the cost for the well might be more, it's hard on drill bits.

If you want to keep iron out of your water, the well cost goes WAY up since the casing will be stainless.
Iron will depend on what rock you hit, I hit limestone (no iron) so I kept it that way,
But I'm telling you that stainless casing hurt the budget.

Damn, that's some good info that leads me to believe that there's a lot more to wells than I ever thought. I don't even know what to do about that when considering a house with a well, besides asking for pictures of the current owners and checking for extra limbs and bug-eyes or wall-eyes and such.

I think septic systems need to be pumped out now and then, right? I went and looked at one house, and the realtor told me that it was on septic, but they didn't know where it was on the property. How many tons of their turds am I gonna have to pump out if I buy the place?

 

[mom45]

The building department/planning commission should be able to tell you where the well and septic are located. They have to indicate that on the building plans assuming you are buying a house that is not very, very old that might not have had a permit. The well and septic need to be located far enough apart to keep the well from being contaminated. There are specific rules on this and depending on the type of loan you are getting, could involve a new well if the rules were not followed.

If you want to know about the water where you are looking, ask for a glass of water when you view the home. Taste and smell will tell you if you have sulfur, iron or other issues you would have to deal with. Then, ask if there is a water softener or conditioner and ask about it's age, if it is rented or owned, etc. You can also ask about when the septic was placed and when it was last pumped.

When we lived in the Rensselaer area, we had horrible sulfur water. We bought a Culligan system that used Chlorine to treat the water and it was a nightmare.

Where we live now, we have very good water with no water softener or purification system. We have a whole house filter that we change periodically. It filters out the sand and a small amount of minerals. We have a driven point, and the water tastes like bottled water.

If you are building a new home, you would need to hire a soil scientist to take soil samples to tell you where the septic would need to be placed and what type of septic system would be required. Not all property is suitable for a septic system. If it doesn't pass the perc test, you can't build so it is good to do your research. The county health department signs off on the septic permit so they can also answer many of your questions regarding this.

 

[JeepHammer]

Damn, that's some good info that leads me to believe that there's a lot more to wells than I ever thought. I don't even know what to do about that when considering a house with a well, besides asking for pictures of the current owners and checking for extra limbs and bug-eyes or wall-eyes and such.

I think septic systems need to be pumped out now and then, right? I went and looked at one house, and the realtor told me that it was on septic, but they didn't know where it was on the property. How many tons of their turds am I gonna have to pump out if I buy the place?

The only thing you have to pump out is what won't break down.
Over time what you flush will have things that don't break down, and it will build up.
I've been here more than 15 years without a pump out, but we don't run grease/fats down the septic drain, nothing like baby wipes, sanitary napkin products, and we use septic safe toilet paper.

We also treat with bacteria boost from time to time, and not dumb enough to use the germ killer/disinfecting soaps, gel soaps (thickeners), etc.
No sense in getting a good bacteria colony running, then nuke it with disinfectant.

Eventually I will have to pump, but we planned for that also, marked septic lid, lift pipe installed.

The PERK (ground percolation test) is a soil density and absorbance test.
They want to see if your ground can suck up the waste out of the septic.
Honestly, you can mess with this pretty easily by mixing in sand and other stuff if it's all clay, you won't have to replace everything.
I had to add clay, so I ordered a couple truck loads of clay and did the mixing myself, with pea gravel...

I suggest clean out plugs where you can.
I have one at the house, one at the septic, can clean pipes from either direction.

No matter what you do, crap will build up in the pipes and will need to be cleaned.
Most people have to dig up the pipes, I just hid the cleaning plug with a bush and I don't have to dig, a big plus!

 

[Sigblaster]

The building department/planning commission should be able to tell you where the well and septic are located. They have to indicate that on the building plans assuming you are buying a house that is not very, very old that might not have had a permit. The well and septic need to be located far enough apart to keep the well from being contaminated. There are specific rules on this and depending on the type of loan you are getting, could involve a new well if the rules were not followed.

If you want to know about the water where you are looking, ask for a glass of water when you view the home. Taste and smell will tell you if you have sulfur, iron or other issues you would have to deal with. Then, ask if there is a water softener or conditioner and ask about it's age, if it is rented or owned, etc. You can also ask about when the septic was placed and when it was last pumped.

When we lived in the Rensselaer area, we had horrible sulfur water. We bought a Culligan system that used Chlorine to treat the water and it was a nightmare.

Where we live now, we have very good water with no water softener or purification system. We have a whole house filter that we change periodically. It filters out the sand and a small amount of minerals. We have a driven point, and the water tastes like bottled water.

If you are building a new home, you would need to hire a soil scientist to take soil samples to tell you where the septic would need to be placed and what type of septic system would be required. Not all property is suitable for a septic system. If it doesn't pass the perc test, you can't build so it is good to do your research. The county health department signs off on the septic permit so they can also answer many of your questions regarding this.

Some of the houses we are looking at were built in the 1800s. My main worry is that I don't want to be drinking or showering in my own poo or pee. I'm pretty sure these houses aren't using Star Trek technology, where they disassemble all the molecules into atoms, then recompile them into different molecules. No, this is straight up a case of bathing in or drinking your own waste.

I have family members who live on small plots (less than 1/4 acre) in other states where they have well and septic, and I always bring a cooler of bottled water. I even use it to brush my teeth. When I shower, I'm a bit excessive with the use of soap. Maybe I'm cautious, maybe I'm paranoid, but at least I know that masks don't work and Epstein didn't kill himself, so I got that going for me, which is nice.

 

[actaeon277]

Don't wash 20 loads of clothes in one day. Or some ungodly amount.
I had a brother and his wife living with me, and a friend with his girlfriend.
Between all the showers and dishes, no one told me my sister in law washed many loads of clothes..
Turns out, the softener had "run out".
And I didn't know it till I washed clothes, and my underwear came out brown.


Had a softener that would decide at 2am if it had enough to get through the day.
If not, it would cycle.
If it did, it would skip the cycle for a day.
So, I assumed with our water load, we should be able to do 2 loads, at least.
So, before washing, I'd look at the softener.
If it said "recycle scheduled", I could still wash 2 loads.
If it said nothing about cycling, I would wash 2 loads. Then look at the softener.
Basically, once the message popped up, limit to 2 loads, and regular water loads (showers, dishes)

I'm sure I could have got more, but I never had brown clothes after that.

 

[actaeon277]

Also, don't use water stuff when the softener is recycling.
Especially hot water.
When cycling, the softener is bypassed.
So you'll put iron in your pipes and water heater.

 

[actaeon277]

If you are planning a genny, for emergency power, water pump is a good thing to set up to run on the genny.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

We have a well and I love it. Water is hard, but no smells or tastes, just pure clean water. We were on a septic (Dad built the tank himself back in 1952, but he was a civil engineer and also worked for the health department, so he was well-versed in the requirements), but last year they ran sanitary sewers in our neighborhood and required us to hook up to that, so they filled in our septic.

Wasn't real happy about that, since we had to pay for it, albeit at a discounted price. Still, I went from having no water/sewer bill to now having our sewer bill added on to (of all things) our gas bill. Citizens Energy (Formerly Citizens Gas) is also apparently our water company now.

We have a softener that we own. I use regular softener salt but also add 1/4 cup of Iron Out per bag when I refill it to help with the iron content and reduce/nearly eliminate rust stains in the sinks, tub, laundry, etc..

 

[jerrob]

Once you live where you have a septic system, be mindful of sending too much harsh, cleaning chemicals down the drain. For a septic to work properly, it has to have the correct bacteria to break down the waste, too much of the wrong stuff can kill the beneficial bacteria, that's often where it'll need pumped out.
We use alot of diluted white vinegar for cleaning where we can. I've lived in my house for 11 years and had zero issues.

As far as a well, all water consumed, goes through our Berkey, no exceptions. This speaks more of my paranoia than our water quality. If I ever live somewhere that has municipal water, it'll get ran through a Berkey with additional filters for chlorine/fluoride.

The whole house is serviced with a standard water softener for use in showers, laundry ect. I collect and use rain water for my garden.

 

[KLB]

If you are buying a house with a well and septic, they should have to be inspected, so there shouldn't be any mystery about where they are or how they are functioning.

Your best bet would be to get a company to come in and test your water and get a softening/filtration system that meets your water's needs.

I will add, Act is right about the generator. One of the reasons we went with a whole house genny was because of our well and septic pump. It sucks when you can't flush the toilet more than once.

 

[04FXSTS]

A little over two years ago we started putting our new modular on a vacant lot, it had a house on it back years ago so not virgin land. In our area you must have a minimum of one half acre to build which we do. I guess that is to make sure there is ample room for well and septic. A former owner of the property knew where the old house and septic was located so that helped.
The health dept. was very helpful and helped with finding a contractor for the "perc test" and then base the septic requirements on the soil and number of bedrooms. Our soil had good drainage and with three bedrooms called for 1500 feet of tile. The septic went in just fine and for a year and a half now is fine.
We live in an area with a shallow water table around 12 to 14 feet down to water. We ended up with a bored well 24 inches in diameter and 23 feet deep. Not sure how many gallons per minute it puts out but we pumped with about a 15 GPM pump for hours and the water level never moved.
I also knew someone neat where we used to live that drilled several wells and never hit a reliable sourse of water. He and his neighbor hated each other and his neighbor had natural springs that ran all year round. Another friend has a good drilled well about 180 feet deep and his neighbor is at 220 feet.
We put in a whole house filter for allwater that comes into the house. Had to modify the pluming from the factory because it sent water to the washer hook up that would not have been filtered, kind of weird.
Water softener, www.filterwaterdirect.com is what I ended up with. It is small and put right in the supply line behind the filter in fact about the same size. It is actually a "water conditioner" and uses like a catalatic convertor system. Does not waste water like a softener does and I like the small size, we have the Poly-Phosphate Cartridge Kit (filterwaterdirect.com). Seems to be doing it's job, with not much to do. The company will test your water for free if you send a sample and recommend a system. They do that even if you do not buy their product. They say our water is very hard, just about the limit for this type. There are other saltless types that work differently if you want to check them out. I had a leak in the filter where the pipe threads into the head. Called and they had a new head to me in one day so I am really happy with their customer service. Jim.

 

[Hkindiana]

I was told that the Bloomington court house used to have a well on one side, and an outhouse on the other side. Someone put red dye in the outhouse, and the well water turned red within the hour. Thst was when then closed both of them.

 

[JeepHammer]

Runoff/Surface water is everything above the first rock cap... But you don't know if it's just *Some* rock, or an actual rock cap.

Keep in mind there will often be rock layers BEFORE you hit bedrock...

The reason I say to have well water tested is before the EPA got serious,
"Out Of Sight, Out Of Mind" was good enough...
A crap ton of places dumped waste into wells, and later pumped into deeper wells.

This will follow the surface/ground water right into a shallow well.
It *Might* have been perfectly clean 40 years ago...
But the contamination keeps moving!

You either HAVE a water filter,
Or you ARE the water filter.

Charcoal filter followed by charcoal scrubber is always a good idea, no matter if the last water test said you were good...

Charcoal stops a crap ton of chemicals, and honestly as long as the water tests good, you won't have to change filters very often...

The charcoal catch filter will catch the fine silt from the well.
The silt isn't dangerous, just accumulates over time, sometime shows up in ice, can erode valves & stuff.

People say this seems like a lot of "Extra" work...
I prefer to think I own a water utility!

 

[CTC B4Z]

Guys,


Do any of you know if having a grey water septic and a black water septic is legal?

Is it grandfathered in if you still have it?

 

[DocIndy]

Guys,


Do any of you know if having a grey water septic and a black water septic is legal?

Is it grandfathered in if you still have it?

When we bought our place, the kitchen drain, dishwasher, washer and the softener were all tied together and went out the west side of the house to a grease trap and single finger septic run. The tub and toilet went out the west side to the septic tank and then across the drive to the finger system that had just been upgraded a couple years prior. The health department had the permit, drawings with dimensions and inspections from when the work was done and even provided us with a copy for our records.

 

[Tactically Fat]

Runoff/Surface water is everything above the first rock cap... But you don't know if it's just *Some* rock, or an actual rock cap.

Keep in mind there will often be rock layers BEFORE you hit bedrock...

The reason I say to have well water tested is before the EPA got serious,
"Out Of Sight, Out Of Mind" was good enough...
A crap ton of places dumped waste into wells, and later pumped into deeper wells.

This will follow the surface/ground water right into a shallow well.
It *Might* have been perfectly clean 40 years ago...
But the contamination keeps moving!

You either HAVE a water filter,
Or you ARE the water filter.

Charcoal filter followed by charcoal scrubber is always a good idea, no matter if the last water test said you were good...

Charcoal stops a crap ton of chemicals, and honestly as long as the water tests good, you won't have to change filters very often...

The charcoal catch filter will catch the fine silt from the well.
The silt isn't dangerous, just accumulates over time, sometime shows up in ice, can erode valves & stuff.

People say this seems like a lot of "Extra" work...
I prefer to think I own a water utility!

Truth.

When I worked on a geotechnical sampling job, we did a lot of work up in super sandy NWI. Think up along the US 41 corridor west of Rensselaer . Generally the greater Kankakee River valley area. Very agricultural area. And again - very sandy.

One of the guys that was assisting us one day made mention that his house's water well was like 12' deep.

In a modern-day agricultural area.

I'm also quite sure that he was on a septic system, too. Granted, as long as your septic is down-stream from the groundwater it shouldn't be a huge issue. But groundwater levels fluctuate. And if it gets high enough to saturate an area, you're going to get backwashing / mixing.

His drinking water well was stupidly too shallow. Like "how much pesticide and herbicide would you like with your drink" stupidly / dumbly shallow.

Don't be dumb with your drinking water... If you can get municipal / rural supplied drinking water, go for it.