The Trump/Republican Primary/General Election Megathread

[JTScribe]

You wear your tinfoil hat your way, I'll wear mine my way!

They aren't effective without antennae, they've already got to you!

 

[jamil]

haha

In my disdain for how the #nevertrumpers behaved irrationally, mixed in with the irrationality that culminated in the Trump/Pence ticket, I'm back where I was in May: wondering if I'm a Republican.

There's something a bit liberating about it. Like maybe, I wasn't really a Republican all along. Maybe I was fooled into thinking that was the party for me. It is its own kind of snake oil.

Pragmatically speaking, the platform issues resonate as deeply with me as the identity of the candidate.

I understand the sentiment. I am not a Republican. I have never been a card carrying member of any party, but I used to identify with the Republican party. During the Bush administration I realized I'm just really not that. It was liberating because I no longer felt compelled to support parts of the platform I didn't really agree with. At the time their platform was very pro evangelical. I'm really not in favor of school prayer, for example.

So now I vote pragmatically. I still only have choices between Republicans and Democrats. And pragmatically, Republicans typically check more boxes for me than Democrats. But I can easily see myself voting for a Democrat like Jim Webb over a "Republican" like Donald Trump.

 

[hoosierdoc]

They keep reyclying benghazi and the other scandals too. Rookies.

They're trolling you now.

Unless Buckley wrote the speech. Which ... just odd.

Edit: Looks like Buckley did write for Junior. Why he would recycle his material... ah well.

 

[T.Lex]

I'm really not in favor of school prayer, for example.

REALLY off-topic (probably) and I think I know the answer, but do you think kids should have the ability to pray in school without risk of disciplinary action? That is, either impromptu or organized, should kids be allowed to pray before/after games or other school events? Assuming, of course, it is not mandated by the school. I think we're well past that.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Do you mean prayers involving a mat or just folded hands?

 

[T.Lex]

Do you mean prayers involving a mat or just folded hands?

Yes.

 

[PaulF]

Not that anyone cares what I think on the matter...

I don't think a student should be disciplined for taking the initiative to pray, so long as it is not an undue disruption to the education of the other students.

In other words...if your "prayer" involves running around the classroom screaming incantations at the top of you lungs during class time...well, I think that's rather inappropriate for the schoolhouse, and should be discouraged.

However, I feel that no student should be fearful of bowing their head to say a silent prayer before a test or a meal or a game, if that is what they are moved to do. I also think this applies to Muslim students...they should be free to quietly excuse themselves to gather away from the other students and make their daily penance.

That isn't really what jamil and I speak about when we talk about "school prayer", though...

We are talking about when students are compelled to pray by school authorities, through social or official pressure, or through official repercussions.

For instance: when a football coach on a Public School's football team tells his players "On this team, we pray to God", before leading the entire team in prayer... The underlying intent being: if you don't pray, you don't play...

...I feel this is objectively wrong, and a textbook case of overreach. I believe that jamil shares similar feelings on this topic.

I don't care who you pray to, or when...but you have no right to hold it against me (in an official capacity) if I choose not to.

 

[jamil]

REALLY off-topic (probably) and I think I know the answer, but do you think kids should have the ability to pray in school without risk of disciplinary action? That is, either impromptu or organized, should kids be allowed to pray before/after games or other school events? Assuming, of course, it is not mandated by the school. I think we're well past that.

Do you mean prayers involving a mat or just folded hands?

Yes.

In school, it depends where, when, under which circumstances, and how disruptive it is. I don't think a free society bans religious exercises just because they're in a public setting. But it needs to be reasonably non-disruptive in a school setting and not compelled. So, during class if you want to pray for a A- instead of the typical B+, and you keep it too yourself, who can or should try to stop that? And if it's outside of class, and it doesn't interfere with other classes, I have no problem at all with like-minded students getting together and praying. I don't care if you use prayer rugs, folded hands, beads, face Mecca lie prostrate, stand at attention, whatever, as long as it doesn't break laws and it doesn't interfere with school.

If I had my way, rather than disciplining the students who want to exercise such freedoms, I would discipline the people who whine about it. Basically that would entail telling them to shut the **** up and let people be who they are.

 

[jamil]

Not that anyone cares what I think on the matter...

I don't think a student should be disciplined for taking the initiative to pray, so long as it is not an undue disruption to the education of the other students.

In other words...if your "prayer" involves running around the classroom screaming incantations at the top of you lungs during class time...well, I think that's rather inappropriate for the schoolhouse, and should be discouraged.

However, I feel that no student should be fearful of bowing their head to say a silent prayer before a test or a meal or a game, if that is what they are moved to do. I also think this applies to Muslim students...they should be free to quietly excuse themselves to gather away from the other students and make their daily penance.

That isn't really what jamil and I speak about when we talk about "school prayer", though...

We are talking about when students are compelled to pray by school authorities, through social or official pressure, or through official repercussions.

For instance: when a football coach on a Public School's football team tells his players "On this team, we pray to God", before leading the entire team in prayer... The underlying intent being: if you don't pray, you don't play...

...I feel this is objectively wrong, and a textbook case of overreach. I believe that jamil shares similar feelings on this topic.

I don't care who you pray to, or when...but you have no right to hold it against me (in an official capacity) if I choose not to.

Exactly.

 

[T.Lex]

We are talking about when students are compelled to pray by school authorities, through social or official pressure, or through official repercussions.

For instance: when a football coach on a Public School's football team tells his players "On this team, we pray to God", before leading the entire team in prayer... The underlying intent being: if you don't pray, you don't play...

Does that seriously still happen?

Yeah, that's not right.

But, I will quibble with the "through social ... pressure." If a coach participates, or even leads, a prayer before a game with the students, I don't see a problem with it. An invitation to all students who want to participate would be polite, but if it is just a de facto thing that happens, and kids either participate or not, that's ok to me, too.

I know football coaches. If the best player on the team didn't want to pray, he'd still get all the playing time the coach could give him.

My kids have all gone to parochial school, and I think God for that.

 

[miguel]

Intellectual property is horse **** and I work in an industry that is dependent on intellectual property, so I feel comfortable saying that!

I'll be back later to defend myself, got to go...

 

[AmmoManAaron]

Don Jr is a fantastic speaker. I kept looking at him and wondering when he'll run for president

Agreed. I would like to see more of him. Maybe he will have a place in the cabinet? I know he is pro-gun and pro-hunting and I am pleased to see he is playing an active role in his father's campaign. The Trump sons have actually done far more than The Donald himself to make me feel comfortable about the safety of gun rights under a Trump administration.

As what of his ability to manage tens of thousands of employees, run an international multi-billion dollar company AND raise fantastic kids?

that dude has 50X more ability than Hillary

I hadn't thought of it that way, good point. His kids do seem to be fairly responsible and well grounded compared to most of the other kids of wealthy or famous people.

Glass-Steagall

Glass-Steagall: Wall Street is not happy with Donald Trump

The fact that he is even talking about this gives me hope that Trump is what he says he is - it's certainly not a hot-button issue for the electorate at large. If elected, it will be interesting, and revealing, to see how much effort he puts into getting this done.

 

[bwframe]

It is traitorous to the gun community to vote anti-gun. A vote for anything other than one that can beat the anti-gun candidate is traitorous to the gun community...

...the problem here is that you guys project your own idiosyncrasies on others, as if they should have the same mindset as you just because we all share a common interest in guns. One can be a gun owner and still believe that Trump won't end up being any better on than Hillary...

The Second Amendment is about more than just an "interest in guns." Hopefully the haters who go out of their way to promote a Hillary victory will study up on it. Second Amendment proponents understand that, while we may not all be one issue voters, 2A must be priority number one as it is the foundation of our nation.

It is foolish to believe that Trump will not be better than Hillary, when she is running on a gun-control platform and he is backed by the NRA. We should all be doing our best to educate foolish gun owners.

 

[T.Lex]

In other news, apparently an unnamed female speechwriter admitted a "mistake" in writing Melania's speech, tendered her resignation, but it was rejected by Trump himself.

Would link to the WTHR report, but almost literally, that's all there is.

 

[PaulF]

The Second Amendment is about more than just an "interest in guns." Hopefully the haters who go out of their way to promote a Hillary victory will study up on it. Second Amendment proponents understand that, while we may not all be one issue voters, 2A must be priority number one as it is the foundation of our nation.

It is foolish to believe that Trump will not be better than Hillary, when she is running on a gun-control platform and he is backed by the NRA. We should all be doing our best to educate foolish gun owners.

There is so much factually wrong in this statement, it's hard to know where to even begin...

The second amendment was not "the foundation of our nation". Our nation was founded as a criminal enterprise...a revolution. Legal ownership of guns had absolutely nothing to do with it...the founding of our nation was an act of treason to the British crown.

The second amendment was, quite literally, an afterthought. The entire government was already ratified and in place without the bill of rights...passed over two full years later. If gun ownership was such a universally-held priority, why wasn't it included in the original constitution?

Second...you are deluding yourself if you think Trump's agenda includes anything but Trump. Our gun rights are just as much a pawn to be sacrified to him as they are to Clinton...it's a good thing we will never find that out for realz.

At the end of the day the NRA endorsement is meaningless...they also endorsed Rommey, who had an established history of SIGNING GUN CONTROL INTO LAW...they endorse the Rebublican front runner every election.

 

[T.Lex]

Meredith McIver is a staff writer for Trump's private company, not his presidential campaign, and issued her statement on Trump Organization letterhead.

Melania Trump's speechwriter admits mistake - 13 WTHR Indianapolis

Couple problems. She knew the passages were from Michelle's speech, but did not check them. Well, she didn't do that because she's unfamiliar with political campaigns. She has also apparently ghost-written some of Trump's books.

She's not a political writer.

For me, a larger issue is the mixing of campaign and personal/business assets. That's just not something real candidates are allowed to do. If she is actually salaried by Trump, Inc., there may be campaign finance issues.

Again, Melania using lines from Michelle is not the issue. What it reveals about the candidate and how he runs his campaign is the issue.

ETA:
Statement available here:
http://www.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/MeredithStatement07202016.pdf

Says, "A person [Melania] has always liked is Michelle Obama."

So. That helps.

 

[bwframe]

...The second amendment was not "the foundation of our nation". Our nation was founded as a criminal enterprise...a revolution. Legal ownership of guns had absolutely nothing to do with it...the founding of our nation was an act of treason to the British crown.

The second amendment was, quite literally, an afterthought. The entire government was already ratified and in place without the bill of rights...passed over two full years later. If gun ownership was such a universally-held priority, why wasn't it included in the original constitution?

At the end of the day the NRA endorsement is meaningless...

Gun ownership and use was a given when our nation was founded.
The Second Amendment was added because the founders were afraid that our nation might grow into the wrong mindset. Here we are?



NRA endorsement is meaningless only when we allow it to be.

[video=youtube;XVIgyq_UJbc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVIgyq_UJbc[/video]

 

[pudly]

At the end of the day the NRA endorsement is meaningless...they also endorsed Rommey, who had an established history of SIGNING GUN CONTROL INTO LAW...they endorse the Rebublican front runner every election.

You do remember what the alternative to Romney was, right? The entire reason for the NRA endorsement is to recommend which candidate they believe will be best for the 2A, not whether either is an ideal candidate. The lesser evil is a perfectly reasonable selection given that criteria. What is the last Democratic candidate that would have been a better 2A supporter than the competing Republican candidate?

 

[PaulF]

You do remember what the alternative to Romney was, right?

Yes, a politician that had (to that point) never, in his history as an executive, sponsored, endorsed, or signed a gun control bill.

Also, the greatest thing to happen to the American gun sales since repeating arms.

Reality is a ***** sometimes...

 

[Dead Duck]

Yes, a politician that had (to that point) never, in his history as an executive, sponsored, endorsed, or signed a gun control bill.

Also, the greatest thing to happen to the American gun sales since repeating arms.

Reality is a ***** sometimes...

But Obama was the only other choice and voting for him as a gun owner would have been stupid and super irresponsible.

But I'm sure Hitler didn't start his life killing people though.......