Woodfield SouthLake Shopping Mall in Hobart...

[greyhound47]

99% of us are saying the same thing...

The other 1% is going to wind up in the news/jail for trying to "stand up for themselves".

I've said it once and I'll say it again, there is a place and a time to fight the policies.

For that 1% ...

Holy crap! The word LOSING is misspelled a great deal of the time as LOOSING and the owner of this car even put it on their windshield!

 

[JosephR]

Holy crap! The word LOSING is misspelled a great deal of the time as LOOSING and the owner of this car even put it on their windshield!

Thanks for the explanation. I thought that was maybe his own car?

 

[skigun75]

Joe, I am stealing you signature statement. It describes my secretary perfectly. Im still laughin

 

[youngda9]

IThe fact that you are not allowed to carry in the mall even though you have your LTCH is outright horsesh!T!! HOWEVER the mall is NOT public property. it is OWNED by Westfield which means it is PRIVATE property and as such they can enact rules such as no handguns allowed. Failure to comply when asked to leave would result in YOU being arrested for trespassing. The fact that you had a gun is irrelevant. The facts as you laid out where that you were asked to either take the handgun out to the car and/or lock it up, or leave the premises. You yourself stated that you refused to leave which constitutes trespassing as I read the statues. Good thing there wasn't a cop at the substation or you might have been wearing silver bracelets.

NOW...all that being said the simple solution is if you don't like the rules don't go in.

Greg

This is your answer. You may not like it, but you were asked to leave and refused. I bet if the real cops were there they would escort you off the property once they knew that the secutity guards(mall "officials" of some capacity) asked you to leave. That would have been the proper thing.

Ahhhh....the perils of OC.

 

[JosephR]

Joe, I am stealing you signature statement. It describes my secretary perfectly. Im still laughin

Then why does she still have a job? Nice tatas?

 

[skigun75]

Oh dear God, I wish, Joe.

I am not the decision maker, just the worker bee.

 

[JosephR]

Wait a minute, the owner can ask you to leave if they so choose. The owner (Westfield) chooses to have people turned away if they have a firearm on them for malicious intent- THAT is their wish and the wish they've conveyed to their stupid f*cking rent-a-cops.

Now, if you go in their with a firearm, as you have the right to, and they can't point out where your "malicious intent" comes from, then what f*cking right do those 'tards have to say ANYTHING at all to you?

Basically, they are turning company policy into something just a little bit different so that they can stretch their wangs.

Some of you are smart enough to know that it is the right of the owner to turn away anyone for any reason but you weren't smart enough to actually read the reasons they LISTED IN WRITING as a legit reason to have someone leave.

Get off the OP's @$$ please.

Let's say you have a babysitter for your children. You tell them explicitly they may punish your children if they physically fight.

Does your babysitter have the right to punish your children if they argued? That's not physically fighting, even if the babysitter thought it may lead to it. What would you do if you found out your children were punished even though they followed your rules and listened when you said "Now don't beat each other up while I'm gone or the babysitter will punish you- I told her she could!"

Your babysitter got a little "generic" and broad in her interpretation of "physically fight" even though it was explicit.

Hmm...

 

[Prometheus]

Wait a minute, the owner can ask you to leave if they so choose. The owner (Westfield) chooses to have people turned away if they have a firearm on them for malicious intent- THAT is their wish and the wish they've conveyed to their stupid f*cking rent-a-cops.

And there is the answer. Anything else doesn't matter. Security guards are agents of their employers.

A cop isn't going to screw around with trying to interpret what rules the owner laid out and if 'no guns' is the same as 'no guns with malicious intent'.

The mall cops have the authority (from their employer) to eject persons from the mall. The cops KNOW this. You won't win some argument (nor will probably allow much of that banter to occur) about an issue.

It's pretty black and white. Security says you go, you go. Your only recourse would be to contact management after the fact (or file a suit if they discriminated based on age/sex/religion or they physically assaulted you).

Hobart PD would have almost without doubt sided with the security guards... even if they agreed with your premise that you weren't acting 'maliciously'. Thems the breaks.

Write a letter to the appropriate westfield management/owners and let us know what they say.

 

[Nakatomi]

This thread needs some NAKATOMI!

But, I'm gonna go get me some Fazoli's instead. That twice-baked lasagna is off the hook!

 

[greyhound47]

LMAO! Get some!

This thread needs some NAKATOMI!

But, I'm gonna go get me some Fazoli's instead. That twice-baked lasagna is off the hook!

 

[greyhound47]

And there is the answer. Anything else doesn't matter. Security guards are agents of their employers.

A cop isn't going to screw around with trying to interpret what rules the owner laid out and if 'no guns' is the same as 'no guns with malicious intent'.

The mall cops have the authority (from their employer) to eject persons from the mall. The cops KNOW this. You won't win some argument (nor will probably allow much of that banter to occur) about an issue.

It's pretty black and white. Security says you go, you go. Your only recourse would be to contact management after the fact (or file a suit if they discriminated based on age/sex/religion or they physically assaulted you).

Hobart PD would have almost without doubt sided with the security guards... even if they agreed with your premise that you weren't acting 'maliciously'. Thems the breaks.

Write a letter to the appropriate westfield management/owners and let us know what they say.

Wow. I ACTUALLY agree with something Prometheus said!

 

[Mauser-K98]

The Simon's own and operate a huge chunk of the malls in the midwest, and possibly over half of the malls in Indiana.

They're notorious for not being "gun friendly" - many a people have been asked to leave Simon Malls, though I have never had even the slightest issue.

I recall there being a shooting at Greenwood Park Mall a few years ago, some whacko popped rounds off in the open area. I don't recall anyone getting hurt, but I can see the corp lawyers poking them to put signs up for liability sake. They are all about avoiding lawsuits

 

[Soundslikejosh]

<snip>
I'm sure Dragon would agree one or two things on his end could have been done different, but nevertheless, he wasn't in the wrong (or so it certainly appears from what we've read).

<snip>

No, actually that seems to be the problem. He overreacted, at least once, and when someone took him to task, he responded with more bravado.

I don't know why, but he sure took these mall cops as a BIG threat. No sense getting all bent out of shape over these guys. Remaining calm and firm will usually get you further. Then, the situation escalated and he implied that he would assult them if they touched him. Well, that sure does a lot to diffuse the situation now doesnt it? That's ok- nothing a good swearing at wouldn't solve, right?

You aren't responsible for all gun owners. Unfortunately, you do represent us all. So when one of us makes a good or bad impression, it has good or bad repercussions for the whole group. You don't have to like it, but please stop denying that it happens.

Also, please don't act like you are the first person to be slighted. The mall cop may have offended you, but none of us are above that. Take it like a mature adult and respond appropriately. For a guy who is carrying a gun, you seem like you got awfully riled up by guys with flashlights. If you truly have the upper hand and feel secure, why the explosive response?

Thanks for the embarrassment.

 

[Bubba]

...the wish they've conveyed to their stupid f*cking rent-a-cops.

Now, if you go in their with a firearm, as you have the right to, and they can't point out where your "malicious intent" comes from, then what f*cking right do those 'tards have to say ANYTHING at all to you?

Basically, they are turning company policy into something just a little bit different so that they can stretch their wangs.

As a former "f*cking rent-a-cop" (I always preferred being called the 4-9, but that's just me) I'm requesting you shut your ****** pie-hole. Mall security guys and gals are out trying to make a living just like you do at your job. If they screw up, it's their necks on the block. If the boss says "no guns with malicious intent", they know damn well that if their supervisor has a broader definition of "malicious intent" than they do they'll be in the unemployment line before lunch.

I would be a bit upset at the attitudes described by the OP if it happened to me. Certainly cause for a letter of complaint, same as I would write if I encountered a foul-mouthed cashier, or spectacularly poor service at a restaurant. There is a valid customer-service issue and it should be up to mall management to make sure their employees are curteous and professional at all times.

While I do agree with you in the sense that law-abiding citizens should morally be allowed to carry tools for defense anywhere any time, the property owner has said otherwise. It doesn't matter if it's the CEO or the guy that empties the trash can. It doesn't matter if the guards justified their request with a piece of paper reading "Prince's Purple Rain album gets me hot every time I hear it". A representative of the proper owner said "leave" - end of story.

 

[Dragon Talon TSi AWD]

I didn't see this in the 6 pages of this thread so I am going to post it now. I am NOT going to get into a pissing contest over it either. This is my one and ONLY post in this thread.

The fact that you are not allowed to carry in the mall even though you have your LTCH is outright horsesh!T!! HOWEVER the mall is NOT public property. it is OWNED by Westfield which means it is PRIVATE property and as such they can enact rules such as no handguns allowed. Failure to comply when asked to leave would result in YOU being arrested for trespassing. The fact that you had a gun is irrelevant. The facts as you laid out where that you were asked to either take the handgun out to the car and/or lock it up, or leave the premises. You yourself stated that you refused to leave which constitutes trespassing as I read the statues. Good thing there wasn't a cop at the substation or you might have been wearing silver bracelets.

NOW...all that being said the simple solution is if you don't like the rules don't go in.

Greg

Well, since you didn't read all pages, you would've read that they told me to lock it up or we lock you up. In that same blunt tone and hasty fashion... No do you have your license, just are you a cop... Either way, I don't care anymore. It's been over and done with, things happened, no one is in jail, I am still carrying today.

And as far as me being ignorant to the rules, ignorance is bliss. Especially when they don't have it posted at the entrances. None by Sears, Ruby Tues, Borders, Dicks, nothing... So you tell me that's ignorance...

Easy for you to say Greg, it didn't happen to you. Just like Scutter, I know now what he was talking about...

 

[Dragon Talon TSi AWD]

No, actually that seems to be the problem. He overreacted, at least once, and when someone took him to task, he responded with more bravado.

I don't know why, but he sure took these mall cops as a BIG threat. No sense getting all bent out of shape over these guys. Remaining calm and firm will usually get you further. Then, the situation escalated and he implied that he would assult them if they touched him. Well, that sure does a lot to diffuse the situation now doesnt it? That's ok- nothing a good swearing at wouldn't solve, right?

You aren't responsible for all gun owners. Unfortunately, you do represent us all. So when one of us makes a good or bad impression, it has good or bad repercussions for the whole group. You don't have to like it, but please stop denying that it happens.

Also, please don't act like you are the first person to be slighted. The mall cop may have offended you, but none of us are above that. Take it like a mature adult and respond appropriately. For a guy who is carrying a gun, you seem like you got awfully riled up by guys with flashlights. If you truly have the upper hand and feel secure, why the explosive response?

Thanks for the embarrassment.

Thanks for your smart a$$ comment. I don't care who I embarr "assed", wait til it happens to you and see how you react. Everyone is responsible for themselves, gun owners alike. I don't represent the whole group.

Just like the Marine Corps. When I was getting out of active duty, a Marine killed his wife. It made headline news all over the nation and every fellow Marines know this, "There is always one." Eventhough they are part of something bigger than themselves, they are still ultimately responsible for their own actions, not the units.

If you read the earlier pages, Hobart PD was outside and waived me in, after they asked me for my LTCH. One cop even made a joke about my kids, end of story. I told them not to touch me, I was with my kids and girlfriend for crying out loud, what the hell would you have done with your entire family being present there?

And why is everyone on my ass? I just reacted to the heat of the moment, so what? Could things have gone better? Yes, every situation if you backtrack in hindsight could've gone better, but you only get live real life once. No regrets, no holding back. I stood up, not backing down and tucking my tail between my legs.

The principle of the matter is why I gave the "explosive response". I wasn't having "malicious" intent, nor did I go off the handle at first. Only when they started the 20 questions bit, then I started getting defensive.
NOWHERE in the BORDERS, SEARS, RUBY Tuesdays, nor DICKS entrances do they have any "code of conducts" posted. I checked other parts of the mall too, and I didn't see them either, but I didn't get up up close, just in plain view.

I didn't act like I was the first person to be slighted, I even stated to Scutter I feel his pain now...

Just close this thread already... People are taking the side of the "MAN" that is against our beliefs and way of life. I'll die holding a gun in my possession to protect my family.

 

[mikea46996]

And as far as me being ignorant to the rules, ignorance is bliss. Especially when they don't have it posted at the entrances. None by Sears, Ruby Tues, Borders, Dicks, nothing... So you tell me that's ignorance...

Easy for you to say Greg, it didn't happen to you. Just like Scutter, I know now what he was talking about...

Ignorance may be bliss but ignorance of the rules is not a good excuse. I have read the whole thread and I have to agree with some folks I never thought I would agree with. I understand that it upset you, please don't take this as a personal assult. You keep referring to "Just like Scutter", yet you were nothing like Scutter while he was upset he did the correct thing he was asked to leave and he did without causing a disturbance or getting all Rambo on anybody.
Again this is not a personal attack on you, I understand that sometimes in the heat of the moment you just react I am guilty of it too. However I have never done it while carrying, you have to realize that when you carry weather it is CC or OC you have to hold yourself to a higher level.

It is unfortunate that this happen in front of your family but perhaps it is better that they were there I fear your gut instinct may have gotten the better of you if they weren't.

This is my 1st and last comment in this thread I am just giving my opinion, before you tell me opinions are like assholes and everybody has one relax reread what I wrote and think about it. It is done and over but a wiseman once told me you learn something everyday, if one person has learned anything from this thread it is me.

Greyhound remember that apology you wanted????

While I still don't share your views of OC I am sorry for some of what was said.

Dragon you made a comment that nobody knows what ASE is.
Automotive Service Excellence
Master Tech**8yrs

 

[Dragon Talon TSi AWD]

Ignorance may be bliss but ignorance of the rules is not a good excuse.

Dragon you made a comment that nobody knows what ASE is.
Automotive Service Excellence
Master Tech**8yrs

If they didn't post the rules properly, and I didn't see them, how is it ignorance on my part? I didn't even know they had that rule, nor did I know that it was a "malicious" intent rule. That's just like the blanket effect, how could I have malicious intent with my family being there?

And congrats on Master Tech, at least someone knows what it means and stands for. Like I said, most people don't even know what that is, so I have to explain it to them.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

If they didn't post the rules properly, and I didn't see them, how is it ignorance on my part? I didn't even know they had that rule, nor did I know that it was a "malicious" intent rule. That's just like the blanket effect, how could I have malicious intent with my family being there?

Ignorance means that you didn't know, or that you were unaware. To be informed you would have had to hit their corporate website, if it is even posted there, or asked one of the security personnel what their policy is inside the mall or on mall property.

It doesn't mean that you were stupid, just that you didn't know.

And as far as for "malicious intent with my family being there," there was a guy not to long ago that robbed a bank with his young (5 years old? 8 years old?) daughter in tow while he did the deed. Just because I have a girlfriend, wife or kids with me doesn't mean that I don't have malicious intent while walking into a business or public place.

And congrats on Master Tech, at least someone knows what it means and stands for. Like I said, most people don't even know what that is, so I have to explain it to them.

Sears has big signs up at their location in Muncie with ASE printed all over them.

 

[SirRealism]

If they didn't post the rules properly, and I didn't see them, how is it ignorance on my part? I didn't even know they had that rule, nor did I know that it was a "malicious" intent rule. That's just like the blanket effect, how could I have malicious intent with my family being there?

Don't take offense at the word ignorance. It just means "lack of knowledge or information". So, yes, you were ignorant of the rule (as is almost everyone who goes in the mall, including me).

I don't think that a property owner needs to post every rule they have in order to ask you to follow them. But if they don't post the rules conspicuously, they should handle it in a gracious manner.