Kel-tec's Saiga killer?

[CountryBoy19]

so what makes it different from any 7 +1 shotgun. you hear the click on them and then half to reload completely. it doesn't matter if there is another tube or not unless i guess you can successfully count rounds out of regular shotgun better during SD situation? but instead of loading from your side saddle you just switch it over and charlie mike. i am sorry i just don't see your point at all it doesn't matter if its a shotgun or pistol if your not counting rounds when you pull the trigger you going to hear that click and half to reload so there is no real difference in your scenario.

i keep a 870 for home defense w/ a side shell holder that holds 6, so pretty close to what the keltec is holding but instead of having to pull the shells out on empty and then reload, i just switch tubes and roll definitely seems like it will shave a good amount of time on it.

Let me counter that with this. How would you feel if your 17 round capacity Glock or whatever it was had some sort of cut-off device right in the middle of the magazine so that every time you got half-way through you had to stop shooting, flip a switch, rack the slide, then resume shooting? "It's still faster than stopping to reload an 8 round capacity gun." Well sure it's faster, but it's stupid because the capacity is there, they just added extra steps for you to "access" that capacity.

It just seems totally asinine doesn't it? To include all that mag capacity and then make it cut off half-way through it?

It would be very simple for keltec to make this switch automatically, but they didn't. I just think it's silly not to do it. Like I said, I can see his point that it is still faster than a reload, but wouldn't you want to just not have to worry about it at all?

And are you seriously saying you don't understand my scenario at all? About thinking you've got plenty of ammo left, but the critical shot in a gun-fight just happens to be the one where you were supposed to switch over to the other tube?

 

[Disposable Heart]

I remember way back when Gaston Glock's new pistols and the M16 were spoken of in the same way. Now, they are the benchmark of successful redesign of prevailing thought in the firearms industry. Not saying the KSG will end up being the new classic but I do think dismissing Kel Tecs as "novelties" is rather dismissive and presumptuous.

I guess my posts are too long to read for some folks! I have had three keltecs out of 5 in previous ownership that have failed one way or another with reasonable usage. To reiterate:

Keltec made me pay for shipping and repair on a SU-16 because I shot "too much M193" through it (1K rounds, reciever completely failed and cracked several subassemblies, no rounds were loaded hot or failed themselves). They specifically stated the gun was not intended to have more than a few mags of ammo like Federal M193, yet it is not stated in the manual. When I brought that point up, they said it was "implied". I told them they could keep the rifle and I was POed due to what I felt was bait and switch. They sent me a check for what I paid for the gun new (put reciept in with rifle when I sent it off).

I had to pay for shipping to and from Keltec on a PF9 whose alloy AND zytel frame cracked after 500 rounds of WWB 115gr FMJ. They once again claimed it was "overused".

I had to pay for repairs AND shipping on a P3-AT for stretched pin holes on their zytel frame as the alloy frame inside had too much play inside the poly frame after 300 rounds. When learning it was WWB, but fired a box of Gold Dots through it, they said, well, that ammo is hotter.

Sorry, but personally, that is novelty strength to me. They have clearly stated in several posts on KTOG (Keltec Owner's GROUP forum) the guns arent designed for LONG term usage. Now, that said, I love the PF9. Do I carry one? Yes. But I have two. One that has had 200 trouble free rounds that has been prepared for defense and one that I shoot for practice, if it breaks, it breaks.

They are great guns, but given their track record with me so far, I am not rushing out to get something that has high recoil to shake itself apart after 100 rounds of slug (I don't know that, but like I said, my PERSONAL track record with them so far). They seem to rely upon statistics: Ow, that gun hurt to shoot, so I will not shoot it as much (such as their pocket pistols). Or, I am too poor to afford an AR, so I will buy a Su-16 (and not shoot it a ton, it's just a trunk rifle anyways...). There are folks that have had nothing but awesome things from their guns. My current pair of PF9s are that. But I suggest against putting alot of rounds through them or have a brace of them, one for carry, one for practice.

 

[8th SPS USAF]

Kel-tec

I rad somewhere the msrp is going to be $7/800?

 

[greyhound47]

I guess my posts are too long to read for some folks! .

This is disappointing that you rush to make this personal. I did read your posts but did not find anything of merit pertaining to new developments. I am not a big fan of Kel Tec and did not say they are destined for greatness. I simply said that the KSG is out of the box thinking that could herald the arrival of a totally new way of seeing something as unchanged as the Shotgun. I read your posts and they do not apply to what I said about the Kel Tec KSG as it is a totally new product that you have not even seen or tested yet.

 

[greyhound47]

Presumptuous? I am going on every single firearm keltec has sent out of their factory. These are not firearms that are designed to take any abuse what so ever.

.

If you look up the word presumptuous you will see that it was not a slam on you, as you seem to be under the impression I was doing. It is merely a statement that you should not automatically presume anything in the future while only looking rearward. I agree with you that Kel Tec is a near throw away gun in many instances. However, dismissing any new developments by a manufacturer without measuring the merits would seem to me to be short-sighted. Heck look at Ruger. If Kel Tec is so bad why do they keep copying them?

 

[pudly]

FYI-
Caleb of Gun Nuts Media (INGO: Ahab) was at Shot Show testing the KSG and found what appears to be a design flaw that could render the trigger temporarily inoperable. Looks serious enough that Keltec will have to address it.

Kel-Tec KSG Shotgun video Gun Nuts Media

 

[Yeah]

Don't see that issue bothering Kel-tec or Kel-tec buyers.

 

[Disposable Heart]

This is disappointing that you rush to make this personal. I did read your posts but did not find anything of merit pertaining to new developments. I am not a big fan of Kel Tec and did not say they are destined for greatness. I simply said that the KSG is out of the box thinking that could herald the arrival of a totally new way of seeing something as unchanged as the Shotgun. I read your posts and they do not apply to what I said about the Kel Tec KSG as it is a totally new product that you have not even seen or tested yet.

So? With Keltec's products with me right now: Fool me once, shame on you, fool me 8 or more times, shame on me... Lighten up Francis, it's the interwebz...

 

[CountryBoy19]

FYI-
Caleb of Gun Nuts Media (INGO: Ahab) was at Shot Show testing the KSG and found what appears to be a design flaw that could render the trigger temporarily inoperable. Looks serious enough that Keltec will have to address it.

Kel-Tec KSG Shotgun video Gun Nuts Media

Interesting... obviously just a design flaw, which I'm sure will be corrected prior to it's release.

 

[Barry in IN]

The "flaw" is that if you hold the trigger back while pumping the action, the trigger goes dead.
I release the trigger on the rearward stroke of the pumping the gun. It feels natural to do that, since the gun is (sorta kinda) being pulled away from the trigger finger's pad then.

Am I the only one who does this?
Do others leave the trigger back, then reset after cycling the action?
Maybe it's from using an Ithaca 37 in the past, but I've never done it that way.

I won't say that this isn't a flaw because anything that could cause the trigger to go dead is a concern, but I'd stop short of saying the need to reset the trigger on the opening stroke makes the gun unsuitable for defense use.

 

[Fenway]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hi0OWQCkcVc]YouTube - Firing Kel-tec KSG 12ga bullpup shotgun[/ame]

 

[IndyS12]

FYI-
Caleb of Gun Nuts Media (INGO: Ahab) was at Shot Show testing the KSG and found what appears to be a design flaw that could render the trigger temporarily inoperable. Looks serious enough that Keltec will have to address it.

Kel-Tec KSG Shotgun video Gun Nuts Media

It seems like this is more of an issue of learning how to use the weapon instead of being a big "flaw".

EDIT: I'm sure that if the KSG gets popular enough, the aftermarket will start making parts to let you make you function how you want it to.

 

[alan robert]

Nice looking shot gun. No external high capacity mag needed. 8 shots the first time in a very compact package, with 7 additional shots with just moving a switch.

I like it. As with any firearm, train with it.

 

[Vlad the Impaler]

LEO and Hoodie?

YouTube - Firing Kel-tec KSG 12ga bullpup shotgun

Strange bedfellows in that video.

 

[Prometheus]

Interesting... obviously just a design flaw, which I'm sure will be corrected prior to it's release.

Not a flaw. The civilian version was purposefully built to have a dead trigger. The LEO version won't have a trigger killer.

Keltec did design it this way and will not be changing it per the reps at the SHOT show.

Keltec has a new slogan to add to their line up:

"Because your an idiot civilian".

Way to go keltec!

 

[CountryBoy19]

Not a flaw. The civilian version was purposefully built to have a dead trigger. The LEO version won't have a trigger killer.

Keltec did design it this way and will not be changing it per the reps at the SHOT show.

Keltec has a new slogan to add to their line up:

"Because your an idiot civilian".

Way to go keltec!

WTF? Do you have any sources on this? I want to see it straight from the horse's mouth... if they really said that then my excitement was all for nothing...

 

[Juggernaut]

don't ever see any pumper belly fed being a "saiga killer"...
Neat gun, though!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzZW73BKVFQ[/ame]

 

[glock2010]

that kel-tec is sweet but the sagia still has my heart

 

[Prometheus]

WTF? Do you have any sources on this? I want to see it straight from the horse's mouth... if they really said that then my excitement was all for nothing...

Gabe Suarez: Kel-Tec's New Shotgun I have no reason to doubt he'd lie about it, others who attended the SHOT show also report the same response from the Keltec booth.

 

[Disposable Heart]

Gabe Suarez: Kel-Tec's New Shotgun I have no reason to doubt he'd lie about it, others who attended the SHOT show also report the same response from the Keltec booth.

Absolutely disgusting that Keltec would do that. I could understand with any NFA style weapon they make, such as the full auto rifle PMR-30 . But, for something that is to be common availability and something that is cosmetically and functionally the same, that is horrible.

I have withstood some of their practices that were against me in the past (poor service, faulty product, evasive warranty wording), but this takes it. I think soon, and VERY soon I will be selling my Keltecs, every one of them unless they change their tune. Even if they do change, I will be selling them anyways. First thing I tell people when I did purchasing for industrial companies is "give me your best price first". If they backpedal and give me a lower price (and one usually on par with someone else's first price), I will decline their services/offer. I apply the same to politics: You get one chance, don't mess up...