Is it really "us-vs-them?"

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  • Liberty1911

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    I am willing to bet I can tell by what some people post (on this and other subjects) that I can tell their approximate age and or how they were raised. Other than the politicians, this is one of the biggest problems with this country IMO. A large...matter of fact a very large number of 20's to late 30's people in this country has the "I am superior to all others" or the "Everyone is just jacking with me for no reason" mentality. They are unwilling or even unable to take any sort of responsibility for their actions. In their minds it is always better to blame the person that calls them out on something as the reason or the problem. It is preferable to blame the occupation or even the law or rule. They will search out other examples to backup their claim (Dorner)

    I first began noticing it about 10/15 years ago or so. At first I thought it was just me. I made a determined effort when raising my four kids that they have to take responsibility of their actions and decisions. And while they were under my care and control I held them to task each and every time. But upon speaking to many others on the subject I soon learned it wasn't just me that had noticed it. The other night (last week) I had a person in the emergency room. Once I got the person in a secured room I went to the Dr's station to speak with the doctor. I told him what I had and what was going on. Guess what he said/asked? Late 20's or early 30's? Yes sir doctor early 30's, how did you know?

    Everyone in that age bracket are not like that. I have seen others much older and younger the same way. When you put higher education in the mix it even gets worse. Not knocking higher education by any means. But a large amount of those with degrees act as if someone that does not have equal or higher schooling is not qualified to question them on anything or call them out on anything. Many of those with degrees are unable to do anything. They have no common sense, no work ethic and often no jobs. In short they are like the losers of earlier years except they have degrees.

    So with all that said this is one of the reasons (IMO) that we see these type of threads pop up on such a frequent basis. This is all based on my life's experiences and observations and is merely an opinion. But a opinion shared by others. :twocents:

    In short it is never an "Us vs them" unless you yourself make it that way.

    NOTE*** before anyone even starts playing the guess my age game I am not going to go there. I am not some sort of age pro-filer or something.


    It's a product of the 1990's self esteem movement.
     

    Liberty1911

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    j706

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    Maybe I'm missing your point here. Looks like the problem is the LEO's response, the the OP's.


    The OP was carrying in a thigh holster going to the grocery store!! Seriously who does that?:rolleyes: Someone no doubt called it in. We don't know what dispatch told the officers or even how many was sent. None of his rights were violated and he doesn't even have a complaint. But yet he is talking about lawyers and stuff. Age bracket...wanna bet? This is precisely what I am talking about. He was checked out for perhaps arguably using poor judgement. So someone has gotta pay. How dare them!!
     

    lucky4034

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    Actually... whether or not his rights were violated are questionable. That stop was not handled appropriately. Sorry....

    5 cops with guns drawn cornered him on a bridge... running up on him, and he hasn't committed any crime. They tell him to drop his groceries put his heads above his head and begin grilling him with questions on whether or not he is legal and then search his pockets to retrieve his LTCH.

    The guy was scared ****less and complied with everything they wanted without hesitation in fear of being shot or arrested.

    If everything went down as described... that was not a good stop.
     

    pitbulld45

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    Depends on what was reported. Did some jack tell dispatch he was pointing it at people or saying he was racking rounds off to get a quicker respons? I dont have all of the information and cant say if the call was handled wrong or not.
     

    lucky4034

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    Depends on what was reported. Did some jack tell dispatch he was pointing it at people or saying he was racking rounds off to get a quicker respons? I dont have all of the information and cant say if the call was handled wrong or not.

    No it doesn't... Did the officers ask him whether or not he was shooting off rounds? Did the officers ask him if he just pointed it at a store clerk? Did the officers ask him if he just did a drive by?

    No... the officers seen he was legit to carry the weapon and gave him back his LTCH and left. (if the story was accurate)

    If he was reported committing a felony... they would have at the very least asked him if he committed a felony.
     

    j706

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    No it doesn't... Did the officers ask him whether or not he was shooting off rounds? Did the officers ask him if he just pointed it at a store clerk? Did the officers ask him if he just did a drive by?

    No... the officers seen he was legit to carry the weapon and gave him back his LTCH and left. (if the story was accurate)

    If he was reported committing a felony... they would have at the very least asked him if he committed a felony.

    I disagree with you. While the incident as described was not how I would have handled the call we dont know what the call was. I am not in the habit of asking armed people if they just commited a felony either. But going grocery shopping with combat boots, pants and a thigh rig is at a minimum bizarre. It might be perfectly legal but the person will more than likely get some of the attention they no doubt crave. Strange behavior will get a stronger response. Couple that with a bigger city and there you have it imo.
     

    pitbulld45

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    No it doesn't... Did the officers ask him whether or not he was shooting off rounds? Did the officers ask him if he just pointed it at a store clerk? Did the officers ask him if he just did a drive by?

    No... the officers seen he was legit to carry the weapon and gave him back his LTCH and left. (if the story was accurate)

    If he was reported committing a felony... they would have at the very least asked him if he committed a felony.

    OOOO I didnt know all you had to do was ask a criminal (not saying this guy was or is a criminal) and they would tell you the truth and how do you know someone is a legit carrying member just by looking?
     

    lucky4034

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    OOOO I didnt know all you had to do was ask a criminal (not saying this guy was or is a criminal) and they would tell you the truth

    Wait... so if you were a cop and got a report that this guy was committing a felony...

    You would come running with guns drawn, detain him, then check his pants pocket for a LTCH... then when he provides it to you... you just release him and walk away without at least questioning him about the call in claim?

    Come on.... :cool:
     

    lucky4034

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    and how do you know someone is a legit carrying member just by looking?

    You don't... that is why you ask them to produce their LTCH. Are you suggesting that all who Open Carry should be treated like criminals?


    See... this is exactly what I mean! We are being conditioned to give away liberty. I don't know what happened on that stop... I wasn't there, but going off the ONLY story I know, the stop sounds like abuse of authority. If details come out that justify the stop... then so be it. I find it interesting that given all of the information available, you have come to the conclusion that the police were doing what they were supposed to do and that the OP brought it upon himself for exercising his right to open carry.
     

    griffin

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    The OP was carrying in a thigh holster going to the grocery store!! Seriously who does that?

    I hesitate to mention this since it doesn't apply here in Indiana, but in other states this is not so rare. Michigan, for example, and there are legal reasons for using drop-leg holsters. In Indiana, not so much. But I do mention it to expand your thinking on open carry.
     

    pitbulld45

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    You don't... that is why you ask them to produce their LTCH. Are you suggesting that all who Open Carry should be treated like criminals?


    See... this is exactly what I mean! We are being conditioned to give away liberty. I don't know what happened on that stop... I wasn't there, but going off the ONLY story I know, the stop sounds like abuse of authority. If details come out that justify the stop... then so be it. I find it interesting that given all of the information available, you have come to the conclusion that the police were doing what they were supposed to do and that the OP brought it upon himself for exercising his right to open carry.
    No I never suggested all OC should be treated like criminals. I simply stated that I dont have all of the information that the Officers were given. Nor did I say the Police treated it correctly. I just dont know everything that was said and done.
     

    Yellowjeep

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    Ok take the list of cops messing up, and on those same dates write down every crime commited by "us" since you think its allright to put all of us in that catagory. Anyone who has ever worked a day in their life. Has also worked with a know it all, entitled prick that is ruining it for everyone. Or a lazy do nothing. But it dosnt make the company bad or all the people in that company bad. Why then would you think cops are any different. I bet your going to say they are held to a higher standered. Really!!!!! So Dr.,lawerys,nurses,teachers,and hell just plain supervisor at any job are not suppose to be held at a higher standered. Bad cops suck,but people who blame every cop for what 1% of the bad cops did. Makes you suck even more.

    I was a teenager with a fast mustang, I have incountered tons of cops. Lots of tickets and Lots of talks.Ive been pulled over when i was just crusing around. I was also issued a warning for stupid things. I deserved everyone of those if not alot more. If you think cops get carried away with having their hand on there gun while walking up to a car. I think you should go out on a street corner wait for the worst looking group of guys to drive by, follow them untill they stop, get out of your car and ask what they are doing tonight as nice as you can. Do this 10 times. I bet you get attitude from all of them. Now do that 10 more times, but pick out the most innocent looking people you can find. Ask them the same thing i bet you still get attitude from alot of them. If cops alway treat you like crap its because your an ass.

    To all the cops out there. We are not all against you. Alot of us can't thank you enough for what you do. but thankyou. To all that refuse to show I.D.,LTCH, anwser a question, or thinks you got pulled over for no reason. Your an idiot. And last, the commit about entitled people. Im in charge of hiring people and yes trying to find someone 20s to 30s with good work ethic is very hard. But the most entited people i come across is the 40s to 50s.So do i blame there whole generation. No because that would be stupid. I work with a bunch of 40 to 50 year olds just fine that are great people. If its so bad with the yonger crowd with you. Maybe instead of putting them down and acting better than them. You could share how your generation messed up and raised all these entitled kids. So their generation doesnt make the same mistake.
     

    Mosinguy

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    I think it's funny gun owners **** themselves when the MSM paints all gun owners as bad people when someone murders another or even kills multiple people, yet many here think that all cops are bad because of the actions of a few. The OP lists multiple articles where LEO have done wrong and I'm sure many can agree some departments have a bad reputation but there are plenty more departments who don't partake in illegal activities, don't crap on your rights, aren't corrupt, etc. I appreciate what cops go through everyday and this coming from someone who has had negative experiences with the police (involving guns no less).

    You INGO cops keep doing what you do. I think you're doing a great job. It's the other officers who are doing wrong that should be criticized.

    EDIT: That age game thing someone was talking about makes sense. I've noticed the same thing and I'm only 17.
     

    Denny347

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    That's good to hear. How do you rectify working for an admin that isn't? And what happens when they start pushing an anti-gun agenda?

    I sincerely hope there are many more like you out there.

    I work with Frank...well I used too before he changed districts (punk). What is there to rectify? They can't push an "agenda"...there are too many of us and I can't find one co-worker that trusts,listens to, or respects our administration. Good beat cars stay beat cars. Many in admin positions were never good cops to begin with and the troops know it. I am fortunate to work with officers that were beat cops when our admin were still in diapers...they were good back then and they are still good at it now. They are good cops who will tell their "bosses" to shove it if pressed. Many admin privately look down on us beat cars since we are not trying to cheat, claw, kiss out way to the top. When an admin screws up they send them to the street as punishment, the same job we love to do. That gives you an idea of what they think of us. So, how would an admin like that push ANYTHING on us?
     

    Liberty1911

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    The OP was carrying in a thigh holster going to the grocery store!! Seriously who does that?:rolleyes: Someone no doubt called it in. We don't know what dispatch told the officers or even how many was sent. None of his rights were violated and he doesn't even have a complaint. But yet he is talking about lawyers and stuff. Age bracket...wanna bet? This is precisely what I am talking about. He was checked out for perhaps arguably using poor judgement. So someone has gotta pay. How dare them!!


    That statement bothers me a little bit. There are plenty of people who run around doing things I think is bizarre, but as long as it's legal, I don't see why the police would have a problem.
     
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