Is it really "us-vs-them?"

[BehindBlueI's]

And I think in many locales, officers will reflect the attitude of their departments.

Are you familiar with a guy named Frank Straub?

 

[Liberty1911]

Well I guess if it is a joke it is ok. I doubt I would get a positive reaction if I joke about shooting pregnant women/kids/dogs/etc. When you had to pay out the $1000 was it because of something you did or were the tickets issued unjustly?

My department does not have ticket quotas. We are required to perform our duties as necessary, but I have never been told that I had to make a certain number of arrests or issue a certain number of tickets.

It's a little bit over the top to suggest a joke about traffic tickets is the same as a joke about killing people.

About the tickets, the majority were legitimate.

However, when I was younger, and had a Camaro, I did get pulled over twice for no reason. I was absolutely NOT speeding and argued the point. The one time I had a witness in the car, the cop let me go with a warning. One time, the cop issued a seatbelt ticket and a speeding warning. That was back in the day when you couldn't pull someone over for a seatbelt violation only.

I honestly think they were just picking on a kid with a sports car. If I had a different personality type, I might have gotten a chip on my shoulder about cops as a result and might have developed an us vs them mentality.

The 2-3 speeding tickets I got since then were deserved. The last one was 5 years ago.

 

[jgreiner]

I work for a big (relatively speaking) department. I am pro 2A and still stand to work for an admin that likely isn't, and I can say the same for the other IMPD officers that are members of INGO. Maybe you should do a poll of officers at different sized departments so you could back up your opinion with facts.

That's good to hear. How do you rectify working for an admin that isn't? And what happens when they start pushing an anti-gun agenda?

I sincerely hope there are many more like you out there.

 

[level.eleven]

The drug war has ruined all of the public trust and legitimacy that law enforcement once had. They used to respect search and seizure rights, statistics were based on serious crimes and not just $$$ and drugs seized, etc. That all ended in 1971. The dirty secret about the drug war is that everyone, at all levels and in all positions (street people, citizens generally, street cops, their supervisors, lawyers, judges, corrections officers, and everyone else for that matter) knows that it's a total failure, but it continues anyway.

If the drug war had never happened, I'd still have the same view of cops that I had when I was 5 years old--that they were the good guys who protect us from bad people.

And I've never been high (or low) on any type of drug, ever, other than the legal drugs like alcohol and caffeine, which I use in moderation.

This ties in with what I said earlier. This is also when the transition from Peace Officer, keeper of the peace, to Law Enforcer occurred.

 

[lucky4034]

I am not attempting to create, support, or further a division between LEOs and non-LEOs. All I ask for is to not be treated like a piece of **** because of the career I chose. Is that too much to ask?

I'm not accusing you of it... actually quite the opposite. This isn't an individual driven problem. America is being divided on EVERYTHING... one of those divisions is happening between civilians and authority.

The very fact that you don't like being "lumped" into one side of that division is a good thing. NO ONE should like it... but that is the game in play. You can either get defensive and the system will force you into one side of the division... or you can not get defensive and decide that you don't like this game and work to fix it.

I won't blame you for whatever decision you make.... I understand that it is frustrating to be judged and pushed. And if I were you... I could totally see myself getting pissed and defensive and just accept it for what it is. Your job puts you in the position to eat a lot of criticism.

Right now... as a civilian, I don't like this game and I don't like where this game is headed. As an adult I have yet to have any really bad experiences with Law Enforcement... I am a stunningly handsome 30 year old white veteran who is street smart enough to play the role. When I get pulled over, I don't have a nice size of double D's to get me out of trouble, so I revert back to the military and give the officer supreme respect "yes sir, no sir" and it works like a charm.

However, if that dynamic begins to change... if I get targeted or profiled or violated... I can totally see myself being conditioned to choosing a side and becoming "us".

For right now... I'm not angry... just sad watching this country fall apart.

 

[TravisJ]

I asked a few people yesterday after reading this thread "Do you trust cops not to abuse their power?" A couple laughed then said no, the rest just said no. I guess when most people have experienced at least one cop like that, it's hard to blindly trust the rest.

 

[j706]

Amazing the amount of work welfare folks can really do.

ah heck that cracked me up bigtime!!!

 

[Liberty1911]

Right now... as a civilian, I don't like this game and I don't like where this game is headed. As an adult I have yet to have any really bad experiences with Law Enforcement... I am a stunningly handsome 30 year old white veteran who is street smart enough to play the role. When I get pulled over, I don't have a nice size of double D's to get me out of trouble, so I revert back to the military and give the officer supreme respect "yes sir, no sir" and it works like a charm.

However, if that dynamic begins to change... if I get targeted or profiled or violated... I can totally see myself being conditioned to choosing a side and becoming "us".

For right now... I'm not angry... just sad watching this country fall apart.

Do you believe cops really let pretty girls off the hook?

 

[Brian 45]

Yes there are a few bad apples in every barrel!

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

or you can not get defensive and decide that you don't like this game and work to fix it.

I get defensive because it is the same b.s. on here day after day. Funny how getting defensive about not being the bad guy makes me the bad guy. I try to fix the problem every chance I get but its kind of hard when the people that don't want to fix it outnumber those that do.

When I get pulled over, I don't have a nice size of double D's to get me out of trouble, so I revert back to the military and give the officer supreme respect "yes sir, no sir" and it works like a charm.

I don't give breaks to women that flaunt their attributes. I give more breaks to those that are cordial and don't give me unnecessary attitude.

However, if that dynamic begins to change... if I get targeted or profiled or violated... I can totally see myself being conditioned to choosing a side and becoming "us".

I'm not the one that said that returning veterans are the new domestic terrorists. Never have, never will. Unless of course the returning veterans go bat**** crazy and try to take over the country.

For right now... I'm not angry... just sad watching this country fall apart.

Because I'm an evil JBT no one believes I feel the same way.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I asked a few people yesterday after reading this thread "Do you trust cops not to abuse their power?" A couple laughed then said no, the rest just said no. I guess when most people have experienced at least one cop like that, it's hard to blindly trust the rest.

I asked a few cops if they trust non-cops to be honest and law-abiding. A few laughed and said no, and a few just said no. I guess when most cops have experienced at least one non-cop that isn't honest or law-abiding its hard to blindly trust the rest.

I don't use purple. Ignorant statements will be met with ignorant statements.

 

[lucky4034]

Do you believe cops really let pretty girls off the hook?

As opposed to Blacks and Mexicans?

I do not believe that all cops are bias... nor do I believe that all cops are non-bias.

I do believe that pretty women are more privileged in society than ugly women. Actually there are plenty of studies that suggest it.

That wasn't my point... my point was that we all have our tools. A pretty women may have nice breasts... a clean cut white guy with a nice smile who is smart enough to be respectful may have charm on his side.

If I was a black man with a BMW who was routinely stopped for what seems like no reason at all... I can easily see myself having a different outlook.

 

[lucky4034]

I get defensive because it is the same b.s. on here day after day. Funny how getting defensive about not being the bad guy makes me the bad guy.

It doesn't make you the bad guy.... You are the casualty of a failing system... a self destructing society.

I try to fix the problem every chance I get but its kind of hard when the people that don't want to fix it outnumber those that do.

Welcome to my world.... Its hard enough to swallow the fact that all signs point to an total collapse of the US Dollar....

Imagine my frustration that I can't even convince my own father who spent his entire life stashing away dollars, that they are losing value and if he doesn't do something with them, like invest them in real estate or precious metals, that they won't be worth the paper they are printed on and he will have wasted his entire life.... let alone convincing the rest of America.

The "police state" is happening... the entire world is moving towards it and yet no one notices and no one cares. There are people on this board who get laughed at, yelled at and ridiculed for pointing out the obvious.... Some people will listen and some won't....

There are plenty of people on here who think Members like Rambone or Liberty are Chicken Little and just paranoid... and even if they are, there is value in what they believe and plenty of evidence to support it. I don't see anything wrong with dialogue and even frustration about ways to prevent a police state and don't see why police officers can't be part of the conversation.

In the 1800's the idea of an income tax was pushed many times and it was such a radical idea that it was met with extreme resistance. The thought of the government taking money from its citizens income was unfathomable. In the early 1900's through conditioning and national events... the idea didn't seem as radical. Then in 1913 it was proposed and accepted.

Fast forward 100 years and income taxes are out of control and ingrained as a part of life, so much so that Americans can't fathom a time when income taxes didn't exist and the thought of them not existing in the future seems impossible and unrealistic.

 

[Rocket]

United we stand, Devided we fall. A united nation is a threat to tyrants but a Devided one is controllable. This us vs them is in all things in this country. I believe it is a human condition that we are ment to rise above.

 

[lucky4034]

United we stand, Devided we fall. A united nation is a threat to tyrants but a Devided one is controllable. This us vs them is in all things in this country. I believe it is a human condition that we are ment to rise above.

Very true...

What bothers me the most, is that I can't figure out if tyrants are dividing us... or if division is ingrained in human nature and tyrants are derived from division?

 

[Rocket]

It is ingrained in our nature and tyrants ride it to power. But the ability to rise above is one of the things that separates people from animals. A tyrant plays the telephone game and twists half truths and spits them into your neighbors ear. A patriot yells Hold we must stand together and we shall overcome. But this human nature is incredibly hard to overcome, that is why evil men continue to rise to authority and devide us further.

 

[Hohn]

It never ceases to amaze me that people tend to think that one's profession or job is indicative of how they will behave. They're just men..

IN some cases, not even that. They are overgrown boys with a huge ego, drunk on their own power.

But in many cases, you have grown adults serving the public (yeah, that's you and me) in a job that can sometimes be dangerous.

LEOs often get put in the place of having to enforce laws they may personally disagree with...

 

[j706]

I am willing to bet I can tell by what some people post (on this and other subjects) that I can tell their approximate age and or how they were raised. Other than the politicians, this is one of the biggest problems with this country IMO. A large...matter of fact a very large number of 20's to late 30's people in this country has the "I am superior to all others" or the "Everyone is just jacking with me for no reason" mentality. They are unwilling or even unable to take any sort of responsibility for their actions. In their minds it is always better to blame the person that calls them out on something as the reason or the problem. It is preferable to blame the occupation or even the law or rule. They will search out other examples to backup their claim (Dorner)

I first began noticing it about 10/15 years ago or so. At first I thought it was just me. I made a determined effort when raising my four kids that they have to take responsibility of their actions and decisions. And while they were under my care and control I held them to task each and every time. But upon speaking to many others on the subject I soon learned it wasn't just me that had noticed it. The other night (last week) I had a person in the emergency room. Once I got the person in a secured room I went to the Dr's station to speak with the doctor. I told him what I had and what was going on. Guess what he said/asked? Late 20's or early 30's? Yes sir doctor early 30's, how did you know?

Everyone in that age bracket are not like that. I have seen others much older and younger the same way. When you put higher education in the mix it even gets worse. Not knocking higher education by any means. But a large amount of those with degrees act as if someone that does not have equal or higher schooling is not qualified to question them on anything or call them out on anything. Many of those with degrees are unable to do anything. They have no common sense, no work ethic and often no jobs. In short they are like the losers of earlier years except they have degrees.

So with all that said this is one of the reasons (IMO) that we see these type of threads pop up on such a frequent basis. This is all based on my life's experiences and observations and is merely an opinion. But a opinion shared by others.

In short it is never an "Us vs them" unless you yourself make it that way.

NOTE*** before anyone even starts playing the guess my age game I am not going to go there. I am not some sort of age pro-filer or something.

 

[Liberty1911]

Very true...

What bothers me the most, is that I can't figure out if tyrants are dividing us... or if division is ingrained in human nature and tyrants are derived from division?

It's number 2. No question.

 

[steveh_131]

LEOs often get put in the place of [STRIKE]having[/STRIKE] choosing to enforce laws they may personally disagree with...

Here, let me fix that for you.