Is it really "us-vs-them?"

[downzero]

I think this is the most sensible post in the thread...

Except that cops ARE civilians.

 

[LEaSH]

I think this is the most sensible post in the thread...

That's the last thing anyone wants to hear.

you tryin' to make me blush?

 

[LEaSH]

Except that cops ARE civilians.

They have all the traits of a civilian - but no, they are not.

 

[Lex Concord]

Except that cops ARE civilians.

Did you move out of the states?

In US parlance, a civilian is also considered one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force.

- Merriam Webster (via Wikipedia)

 

[LEaSH]

To their credit, cops are on call 24 hours a day.

Never off duty unless they head out on vacation. Even then they can be called in for an emergency.

 

[fireblade]

you are 100% correct sir .....a active duty armed services member on duty or a police officer , or firefighter on duty are not it the text of the law considered civilians nor should they that's why they have the power they do on duty...

 

[mike8170]

They have all the traits of a civilian - but no, they are not.

When did the definition change?

A civilian under international humanitarian law (also known as the laws of war) is a person who is not a member of his or her country's armed forces or other militia.

 

[LEaSH]

When did the definition change?

A civilian under international humanitarian law (also known as the laws of war) is a person who is not a member of his or her country's armed forces or other militia.

I didn't change any definitions. It just is.

Consult other sources of where definitions are found. I've written none of them.

 

[rambone]

It is a rather unfortunate time for America. The laws are worse than ever, and we keep electing the same type of control freaks year after year. People are not pleased with any branch of government. The checks and balances in the system are collapsing. Public opinion of police officers is sinking as the absurdity of the laws increases, and the injustice of the system becomes more and more obvious. I'm not saying its right, its just what I see.

We have every reason to be worried about the future. Government is running off the rails. We need passionate activists to keep government under control. We also need good public servants to uphold their oaths and stand against the machine when necessary. We can't afford to be asleep right now. We need watchdogs to expose bad laws and bad public servants. Information is a powerful tool.

I post a lot of stories looking for government accountability. The reactions that it has brought me range from amusing to disturbing. I've been accused of wanting to see piles of dead cops. That disturbed me a little bit. If I post a story that involves police overstepping their bounds, it should not be taken to impugn anyone who was not involved in the story. Bad cops and bad laws need to be exposed, period. I don't think any reasonable person would disagree with that.

With that, I have 3 things to say.

1. We would all do well to stop generalizing large groups for the actions of a few. If you discuss a story about police brutality, remember that the only guilty parties are the people who participated, and often times the superiors who cover up their crimes. This extends to other discussions about races, religions, groups of protesters, things like "The Left" and "The Right", etc. Call out the individuals and stop generalizing.

2. We would all do well to stop thinking of ourselves as part of a collective. You are an individual. You are accountable for your own actions and your own decisions. You deserve individual praise and individual criticism. The orders you are given don't reflect you until you follow them. You aren't responsible for actions of your peers. You aren't compelled to defend people just because you share the same profession.

3. I think it is dangerous to allow yourself to let your profession become your identity. That thinking subsequently causes a person to take everything personally that people say about that profession and/or other members. I believe this is why some people irrationally defend bad members, and irrationally attack critics.

 

[maxmayhem]

Most cops are pretty good. I just hate it when politicians put them on a pedestal and when they dont honor the law. I hate how they give people directives that are unconstitutional and promulgate their authority with intimidation. The problem with cops is that they are human just like us and it seems that there is little accountability for some. This quote from southland sums it up for me..."We hold cops to a higher stander because we give them a gun and a badge. The only problem with that is, they're recruited from the human race." Southland.

 

[Liberty1911]

In my experience, the police don't view me as the enemy. They view me as a revenue source.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

In my experience, the police don't view me as the enemy. They view me as a revenue source.

Maybe if I got a commission for the tickets I issued. Since I don't, I don't look at anyone that way. But you just keep making generalizations, it is strengthening your us vs. them mentality.

 

[ashby koss]

 

[Liberty1911]

Maybe if I got a commission for the tickets I issued. Since I don't, I don't look at anyone that way. But you just keep making generalizations, it is strengthening your us vs. them mentality.

It was a joke officer serious. But at the same time, my experience with police has been about $1000 in tickets over the years.

Even though you may not personally get any of that money, I believe departments have ticket quota's, or is that a myth?

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

It was a joke officer serious. But at the same time, my experience with police has been about $1000 in tickets over the years.

Even though you may not personally get any of that money, I believe departments have ticket quota's, or is that a myth?

Well I guess if it is a joke it is ok. I doubt I would get a positive reaction if I joke about shooting pregnant women/kids/dogs/etc. When you had to pay out the $1000 was it because of something you did or were the tickets issued unjustly?

My department does not have ticket quotas. We are required to perform our duties as necessary, but I have never been told that I had to make a certain number of arrests or issue a certain number of tickets.

 

[jgreiner]

I have seen a very consistent trend. The local/rural sheriffs for the most part seem to be very pro 2nd amendment. The big city sheriffs and Police Chiefs seem to be very pro gun control and even confiscation. while there will be exceptions to this, i think in general it is a fair assessment. And I think in many locales, officers will reflect the attitude of their departments. Otherwise, how could they stand to work there?

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I have seen a very consistent trend. The local/rural sheriffs for the most part seem to be very pro 2nd amendment. The big city sheriffs and Police Chiefs seem to be very pro gun control and even confiscation. while there will be exceptions to this, i think in general it is a fair assessment. And I think in many locales, officers will reflect the attitude of their departments. Otherwise, how could they stand to work there?

I work for a big (relatively speaking) department. I am pro 2A and still stand to work for an admin that likely isn't, and I can say the same for the other IMPD officers that are members of INGO. Maybe you should do a poll of officers at different sized departments so you could back up your opinion with facts.

 

[lucky4034]

It is a rather unfortunate time for America. The laws are worse than ever, and we keep electing the same type of control freaks year after year. People are not pleased with any branch of government. The checks and balances in the system are collapsing. Public opinion of police officers is sinking as the absurdity of the laws increases, and the injustice of the system becomes more and more obvious. I'm not saying its right, its just what I see.

We have every reason to be worried about the future. Government is running off the rails. We need passionate activists to keep government under control. We also need good public servants to uphold their oaths and stand against the machine when necessary. We can't afford to be asleep right now. We need watchdogs to expose bad laws and bad public servants. Information is a powerful tool.

I post a lot of stories looking for government accountability. The reactions that it has brought me range from amusing to disturbing. I've been accused of wanting to see piles of dead cops. That disturbed me a little bit. If I post a story that involves police overstepping their bounds, it should not be taken to impugn anyone who was not involved in the story. Bad cops and bad laws need to be exposed, period. I don't think any reasonable person would disagree with that.

With that, I have 3 things to say.

1. We would all do well to stop generalizing large groups for the actions of a few. If you discuss a story about police brutality, remember that the only guilty parties are the people who participated, and often times the superiors who cover up their crimes. This extends to other discussions about races, religions, groups of protesters, things like "The Left" and "The Right", etc. Call out the individuals and stop generalizing.

2. We would all do well to stop thinking of ourselves as part of a collective. You are an individual. You are accountable for your own actions and your own decisions. You deserve individual praise and individual criticism. The orders you are given don't reflect you until you follow them. You aren't responsible for actions of your peers. You aren't compelled to defend people just because you share the same profession.

3. I think it is dangerous to allow yourself to let your profession become your identity. That thinking subsequently causes a person to take everything personally that people say about that profession and/or other members. I believe this is why some people irrationally defend bad members, and irrationally attack critics.

This has taken over as the most sensible post in this thread... (sorry leash)

As I said in post #1... we have a situation where fear has perpetuated so deep into society, that we now are happily handing liberty to authority and authority is happily accepting the burden and the process is thoughtless, usually unnecessary and absolutely destructive on both sides.

Its interesting to me that civilians are surprised when authority that they empower infringes upon them. This is a society problem... not a "Group" problem.

We are moving towards a police state.... and its being sold as a "good thing".

Most civilians don't recognize it and most police officers don't recognize it... for those who do see it and understands the horrible place we are headed, its important that we work together to prevent it.

NO ONE... (cop or civilian) want it to be "us vs them"... but that is where we are headed. We can either begin to verbally divide now, or converse responsibly to figure out a way to prevent it. You are seeing in this thread the beginning of the division where responsible citizens and responsible officers are putting up fences and it is counterproductive.


I am of the belief that we are already to far along in our society cycle to prevent "The police state"... "The collapse of the economy"... "Communism" etc.... It may be better to figure out a way to repair after the revolution rather than prevent it, but that is another discussion all together.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

We are moving towards a police state.... and its being sold as a "good thing".

Most civilians don't recognize it and most police officers don't recognize it... for those who do see it and understands the horrible place we are headed, its important that we work together to prevent it.

NO ONE... (cop or civilian) want it to be "us vs them"... but that is where we are headed. We can either begin to verbally divide now, or converse responsibly to figure out a way to prevent it. You are seeing in this thread the beginning of the division.

I am not attempting to create, support, or further a division between LEOs and non-LEOs. All I ask for is to not be treated like a piece of **** because of the career I chose. Is that too much to ask?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

It was a joke officer serious. But at the same time, my experience with police has been about $1000 in tickets over the years.

Even though you may not personally get any of that money, I believe departments have ticket quota's, or is that a myth?

I work for the same dept as Frank. When I was in uniform there were months I wrote over 50 tickets and months I wrote maybe 5. I never got an "attaboy" or a "step it up" either one.


Anyway, I'm just in this thread to that when people post about the "blue wall of silence" and how cops get away with everything I can link them here.