Capitalism is so broken it can’t be fixed

[actaeon277]

It isn't broken. It's just fine. It is just not practiced and that's the problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTQnarzmTOc

That was pretty good.

 

[ViperJock]

This is more fun, besides most of people don't want saved. They'd rather wallow in self pity and besides if they took the help and did something with their lives they wouldn't have anything to complain about.

You probably can't read this anymore, but seriously? I called your arguments inane and you "ignored" me but you insult every poster on the forum.

I have figured you out!
1. Believes in big regulatory government.
2. Ignores data.
3. Ignores arguments based on data in favor of arguing points that are irrelevant.
4. Thinks he can "help" everyone but they are not good enough to be grasp his help.

You sir are a liberal elitist. And yes, I do consider THAT to be a personal slight.

 

[fallenangel1]

So it's only prospective gun buyers you have empathy for?

I have empathy for anyone who wants to protect themselves and their families while exercising their 2nd amendment rights.

I do not have sympathy for the people who game the system so that they get a free ride then have the audacity to claim they are a victim of said system and deserve further hand outs.

 

[ViperJock]

I have empathy for anyone who wants to protect themselves and their families while exercising their 2nd amendment rights.

I do not have sympathy for the people who game the system so that they get a free ride then have the audacity to claim they are a victim of said system and deserve further hand outs.

??? Dude ???
That is not at all what you have been arguing, lol. If you had said THAT up front this thread would have been 5 posts long.

 

[hornadylnl]

I have empathy for anyone who wants to protect themselves and their families while exercising their 2nd amendment rights.

I do not have sympathy for the people who game the system so that they get a free ride then have the audacity to claim they are a victim of said system and deserve further hand outs.

I have no sympathy for those who ignored warnings from their friends and family that this was coming. I have no sympathy for those who have had a family for years and never bought a gun before this current panic using their "family" as a plea to tug on my heart strings to make them a deal. I have no sympathy for those who think they're entitled to the property of others on only their terms.

If you didn't need a gun the first part of last December, you don't need one now.

 

[hornadylnl]

I have empathy for anyone who wants to protect themselves and their families while exercising their 2nd amendment rights.

I do not have sympathy for the people who game the system so that they get a free ride then have the audacity to claim they are a victim of said system and deserve further hand outs.

??? Dude ???
That is not at all what you have been arguing, lol. If you had said THAT up front this thread would have been 5 posts long.

I think they're one and the same in this case.

 

[Signal23]

Capitalism CAN"T be broken........
Capitalism can be interupted or smothered by regulation, but it will always remain the same.
Example could be gas sold for $1.00 or $5.00 a gallon, @ 1.00 there was less government intervention in the process........now, we still get 1 gallon, but it's $4.00 or $5.00, what changed??? The oil still comes out of the ground and at the end of the process, we still buy it nowing the seller is and should make a profit...what's different?
Cost to get it out of the ground, cost to refine it, cost to transport it, selling taxes.....all are influenced by the government. But the process is capitalism.......where this can go out of whack is if the hassle and taxation make the product undesirable, then people stop buying it.......capitalism still works, but something is impeding the process ( like cigarettes) the tax is so high, people don't want to OR can't buy the product anymore......capitalism still is working, but the burden on the process is to great.
This is what is starting to shape up for bullets and guns.
If they can't take them, then they will tax them till you stop wanting them.

 

[ViperJock]

I think they're one and the same in this case.

Taken in the context I believe you are correct. If he had stated that initially without the qualifying posts, I would have agreed with him. Nothing wrong with that statement at face value.

 

[actaeon277]

Either without regulation is not good.

Without regulation the one who sells can ask for what? a night with your wife? Your daughter? Or anything that you have that is of value.

And the one who hoards will let you and your family die of starvation to save his and his own.

So if the SHTF, and you have a limited quantity of food, are you going to share your childs food with someone who couldn't be bothered with preparing????


And while you may feel like you're fighting an army, keep up the fight.
Stick by your convictions, you may convince someone. Or they may convince you.
INGO is about discussion. Sometimes it's good. Sometimes not so.

 

[fallenangel1]

I have no sympathy for those who ignored warnings from their friends and family that this was coming. I have no sympathy for those who have had a family for years and never bought a gun before this current panic using their "family" as a plea to tug on my heart strings to make them a deal. I have no sympathy for those who think they're entitled to the property of others on only their terms.

If you didn't need a gun the first part of last December, you don't need one now.

Some people weren't educated or had the foresight that you might have had and no matter when they realized the need at least they finally realized. Its just too bad that it took Sandy Hook and the "implied threat" of losing those rights did people sit up and take notice.

I learned about weapons while I was in the Army in the late 90's but my brother is a VP at a Bank and never touched a weapon prior buying one 2 months ago. Hes got the $ so he didn't care about the prices but not everyone is that lucky. I personally don't like seeing people getting taken advantage of but that will not stop it from happening, but I do believe that because of government regulations less people are taken advantage of than would be if we had no government what-so-ever.

 

[roisigns]

I have no sympathy for those who ignored warnings from their friends and family that this was coming. I have no sympathy for those who have had a family for years and never bought a gun before this current panic using their "family" as a plea to tug on my heart strings to make them a deal. I have no sympathy for those who think they're entitled to the property of others on only their terms.

If you didn't need a gun the first part of last December, you don't need one now.

"You Don't Need A Weatherman To Know Which Way The Wind Blows" - Bob Dylan

 

[chizzle]

Magnetism?

Botulism?

 

[roisigns]

Hedonism..oh wait, that is not pure either.

 

[fallenangel1]

So if the SHTF, and you have a limited quantity of food, are you going to share your childs food with someone who couldn't be bothered with preparing????


And while you may feel like you're fighting an army, keep up the fight.
Stick by your convictions, you may convince someone. Or they may convince you.
INGO is about discussion. Sometimes it's good. Sometimes not so.

Thanks, I like the debate. I think too many people get a little too entrenched in their own way of thinking at times though. Which is why I dont mind stirring the pot a little once and again.

As for the food, It would depend, The original quote was about a hoarder, if I had THAT much food then I may be inclined to help others. If I had not prepared and all I had what was in my fridge and pantry that would be different and if I'm being honest it would depend on who's asking for help. We all make snap judgments about people based upon their appearance, how they act and speak. Sometimes we may get to know the person and those first impressions change. But in a situation like this we don't have the luxury of getting to know everyone in need. So even if I had hoarded I could still turn people away based on my 1st impressions.

 

[dross]

I just put a rifle up for sale in my local area on Armslist. Got a quick reply from someone who was angry that I had it "overpriced." The sheer anti-capitalist idiocy of that position amazes me, as does all this whining and illogic about "gouging."

The rifle is mine. I will only sell it if I get a certain price for it. I advertised that price. Buy it or don't buy it.

I have other rifles I won't sell. I like them too much. I'm sure, however, that if you offered me enough money for one of them, I would take it. Is that gouging? Or do you have some right to offer me a "fair" amount for it and then I should have to give it to you just because you want it?

What's the difference between that and announcing what it's worth to me to sell it? If you don't like the price, don't buy. If you can't find a better price, don't buy. If you really want it or need it and you can't find a better price, then it's the same as any other free transaction.

Complaints about gouging make ZERO sense, especially from people who CLAIM to believe in freedom.

 

[hornadylnl]

Some people weren't educated or had the foresight that you might have had and no matter when they realized the need at least they finally realized. Its just too bad that it took Sandy Hook and the "implied threat" of losing those rights did people sit up and take notice.

I learned about weapons while I was in the Army in the late 90's but my brother is a VP at a Bank and never touched a weapon prior buying one 2 months ago. Hes got the $ so he didn't care about the prices but not everyone is that lucky. I personally don't like seeing people getting taken advantage of but that will not stop it from happening, but I do believe that because of government regulations less people are taken advantage of than would be if we had no government what-so-ever.

Who better than you to save them?

Those who chose to ignore the gun market are no more deserving of my sympathy than those who choose to ignore the concepts of making a living to provide for themselves. I've must of read 10 sob stories on INGO alone about how they were saving all their pennies to buy an AR. They were 50 cents away and Sandy Hook came along. Now they'll never be able to afford one and damn all those greedy hoarders and price gougers. But I bet if I went to the homes of those poor and downtrodden who'll never get the opportunity of buying their dream rifle, I could find all kinds of ARs laying around in the form of iPods, iPads, computers, flat screen tv's, xboxs, etc. apparently that rifle wasn't that important to them that all these other wants took precedence. And I'm supposed to feel sorry for them?

 

[dross]

And I'm supposed to feel sorry for them?

Yes. Don't you understand that it's not enough that they have the FREEDOM to buy or not buy anything they want? That's not nearly enough. They should also get to tell other people what value they should place on their own possessions.

 

[fallenangel1]

I just put a rifle up for sale in my local area on Armslist. Got a quick reply from someone who was angry that I had it "overpriced." The sheer anti-capitalist idiocy of that position amazes me, as does all this whining and illogic about "gouging."

The rifle is mine. I will only sell it if I get a certain price for it. I advertised that price. Buy it or don't buy it.

I have other rifles I won't sell. I like them too much. I'm sure, however, that if you offered me enough money for one of them, I would take it. Is that gouging? Or do you have some right to offer me a "fair" amount for it and then I should have to give it to you just because you want it?

What's the difference between that and announcing what it's worth to me to sell it? If you don't like the price, don't buy. If you can't find a better price, don't buy. If you really want it or need it and you can't find a better price, then it's the same as any other free transaction.

Complaints about gouging make ZERO sense, especially from people who CLAIM to believe in freedom.

I think there are multiple things to take into account. If you have one weapon for sale and your just trying to make a little extra money because the markets prices are higher then so be it. You're taking advantage but not necessarily "gouging" although by definition it is.

To me it's more about the people who take advantage of the situation and go out of their way to buy up everything that they can find at "fair" market value just to immediately turn around and sell it all at "AWB Scare" prices.

Overall I personally feel that it's more about intent than anything and because we can't see a persons intent in their armslist ad we assume that everyone asking $700 for a used G17 with one mag is a "gouger".

 

[hornadylnl]

I think there are multiple things to take into account. If you have one weapon for sale and your just trying to make a little extra money because the markets prices are higher then so be it. You're taking advantage but not necessarily "gouging" although by definition it is.

To me it's more about the people who take advantage of the situation and go out of their way to buy up everything that they can find at "fair" market value just to immediately turn around and sell it all at "AWB Scare" prices.

Overall I personally feel that it's more about intent than anything and because we can't see a persons intent in their armslist ad we assume that everyone asking $700 for a used G17 with one mag is a "gouger".

Ah, the thought police.

 

[dross]

I think there are multiple things to take into account. If you have one weapon for sale and your just trying to make a little extra money because the markets prices are higher then so be it. You're taking advantage but not necessarily "gouging" although by definition it is.

To me it's more about the people who take advantage of the situation and go out of their way to buy up everything that they can find at "fair" market value just to immediately turn around and sell it all at "AWB Scare" prices.

Overall I personally feel that it's more about intent than anything and because we can't see a persons intent in their armslist ad we assume that everyone asking $700 for a used G17 with one mag is a "gouger".

So, I see Sandy Hook on TV. I think, "Wow, I'll bet prices are going to go up on 223 ammo. I think I"m going to run down to Wal Mart and buy 10K rounds."

Now I have 10K rounds. Scarcity makes the value of that ammo go up in price. I sell it at the new price for a huge profit. What did I do wrong?

Let's say I hear they may be putting in a military base in my home town. I decide I'm going to buy some apartment buildings near that area. They build the base, and I sell those buildings a year later for for triple what I paid. Am I gouging?

Anything that belongs to me that I obtained through free exchange should be mine to dispose of as I wish. The fact that you didn't have my foresight, or my cash supply or whatever else is irrelevant.