Are you going to Friday Night Steel on November 11th?

[AllenM]

Man I was not dressed for the weather. Managed 2nd in single stack with much room for improvement

 

[CB45]

Apologies....

Somehow I read Dave Thomas, but typed Dave Berry. He was shooter 27. I am sorry for the error. I corrected the spreadsheet, the updated one should be up soon.

Sorry again for the error.

Wow that was quick!!!!! If you get time could someone see if Dave Thomas score sheet might have gotten misplaced? He was new and in my group and I couldn't find his name in the results. Thanks again for the FNS
Brian

 

[Tommy2Tone]

I am not trying to out do anyone here, but i like data! Here is an excel format...sort away! I could make an excel template that might make entering scores pretty easy...I can volunteer for scores next month if i can make it.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16983609/11.11.11.FNS.xls

 

[chizzle]

In defense of scorekeepers

I am not trying to out do anyone here, but i like data! Here is an excel format...sort away! I could make an excel template that might make entering scores pretty easy...I can volunteer for scores next month if i can make it.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16983609/11.11.11.FNS.xls

Our goal with the current format is to make it quick and easy for the scorekeeper to tabulate scores in Google Docs. What we've run into in the past is ever increasing complexity of the scores, and then when our normal scorekeeper can't make it, we're stuck without someone who can keep up with their format (or it takes forever). Moving forward, we plan on sticking with this simple format, so that it can be accomplished with Google Docs very rapidly. If individual shooters wish to dig into the data deeper, they will need to write down their own scores (common at big matches) or they can manipulate the data after our scorekeeper is done with the regular scores.

Scorekeeping is a unique job in the shooting sports, as it happens after the match and people rarely see how much work it can become for the volunteers that undertake the monumental task. For a USPSA match, it can take 4+ hours to tabulate scores, and many steel matches take ~7 days to tabulate and post scores. We also see a lot of scorekeepers that get burned out and quit showing up at matches, due to the work load. Personally, I hate doing scores and I'm extremely thankful to have the help of Adam Griffin (for many years) at FNS, Marcell Watson at FNS, Chad at FNS, Bart Farmer at ACC USPSA, Mark Mortier (for many years) at ACC USPSA, and Eric Welch at ACC SCSA.

It's really hard to get all the data entered correctly and quickly, and often times there are errors due to sloppy handwriting. On top of that, people often "understand" that this is all done by volunteers, but don't always "get it" that someone has to take hours out of their lives in order enter the data, post it, and then make corrections if necessary. Keep in mind, what we're really asking a scorekeeper when we ask them to change / update scores is really "Could you please take even more time out of your personal life to correct the document that shows my performance, on top of the several hours that you've already given to the task?" I'm not saying that it isn't sometimes worth it (like some of the wholesale errors I made last month), but I'm just asking folks to think about that before they ask more from our scorekeepers and webmaster.

My plea with shooters is that we take it upon ourselves to make sure our scoresheets are as neat and accurate as possible, and that if we want to increase the complexity (and thus work load) of the scorekeeping, that we either do this for ourselves (a lot of good shooters keep a notebook to track their scores, which is a good tool to help yourself improve) or that we volunteer.

Thanks again to everybody that came out last night; we ran a fun, safe, and quick match due to so many volunteers.
Sincerely,
Chuck

 

[Tommy2Tone]

I hear you and agree. I think next time I will just snap a picture of my scores. Also, I just wanted to be able to sort and figured someone else could use the doc to do the same. Keep up the good work at fns. Oh and chuck, move to a different class so the rest of us have a chance!

 

[LLDJR]

I think all scores should be entered into 5, iPad's, with score sheet templates then you export the info to on person that blends them into one file

I can bring mine next FNS

 

[Suprtek]

I need to do this more often. It seems like it can be tough to make my schedule work for this but its so worth it. Since I'm still new to FNS, I don't really feel qualified enough to help with some things but I tried to do what I could to help with set up and take down. Its nice to have a place where people can be competitive but still have a great time.

BTW, I'm pretty sure I left a pair of Winchester shooting glasses with yellow lenses on one of the tables in the building. They were cheap so its no big deal but if there's a "lost & found" somebody could just toss them in there and it'll give me an excuse to come back!

 

[chizzle]

I think all scores should be entered into 5, iPad's, with score sheet templates then you export the info to on person that blends them into one file

I can bring mine next FNS

Honestly, we've thought about this, but haven't been able to make it happen. I'm concerned whether or not they would work in all weather conditions (rain, cold, etc.) and whether we could have a spreadsheet that everybody could update without accidentally goofing up the spreadsheet; it sure would be a bummer to accidentally lose the data at the end of a match. If we have any IT people that think they could actually make this happen with existing technology (netbooks, Ipads, etc.) we would seriously consider it for the future. My criteria would be that it would need to be easy enough for someone to learn in a minute or two, and safe enough that we couldn't accidentally delete the data and lose the whole match. Perhaps netbooks with a spreadsheet and macros that would allow data entry, but prevent editing of the spreadsheet without a password?

 

[Tommy2Tone]

Honestly, we've thought about this, but haven't been able to make it happen. I'm concerned whether or not they would work in all weather conditions (rain, cold, etc.) and whether we could have a spreadsheet that everybody could update without accidentally goofing up the spreadsheet; it sure would be a bummer to accidentally lose the data at the end of a match. If we have any IT people that think they could actually make this happen with existing technology (netbooks, Ipads, etc.) we would seriously consider it for the future. My criteria would be that it would need to be easy enough for someone to learn in a minute or two, and safe enough that we couldn't accidentally delete the data and lose the whole match. Perhaps netbooks with a spreadsheet and macros that would allow data entry, but prevent editing of the spreadsheet without a password?

Yeah I would definitely work from seperate spreadsheets and then combine the data after the match. That way you would not have to be connected to the internet and the score keeper could just combine after that match. I dont have the office app on my ipad but as long as the device (ipad, small laptop, tablet, hell a phone with office capabilities) Could start with a templete much like the score sheets, this way you wouldn't need to calculate the times by hand as we go. Excel could do that on the fly for us. Let me look into this today. I have an ipad and an Android phone.

 

[chizzle]

Yeah I would definitely work from seperate spreadsheets and then combine the data after the match. That way you would not have to be connected to the internet and the score keeper could just combine after that match. I dont have the office app on my ipad but as long as the device (ipad, small laptop, tablet, hell a phone with office capabilities) Could start with a templete much like the score sheets, this way you wouldn't need to calculate the times by hand as we go. Excel could do that on the fly for us. Let me look into this today. I have an ipad and an Android phone.

Sounds great. I think it is a real possibility; let me know what you find.

 

[Tommy2Tone]

Sounds great. I think it is a real possibility; let me know what you find.

I can easily edit the spread sheet from my Android phone. Apple is...well Apple and i cannot easily save the spreadsheet from my email on the ipad. Im sure there is a way, i'm just not an apple person. But for any Android phone it would be very easy. Each stage would be on a separate tab so the screen wouldn't be overloaded with data. The names would be automatically copied over to each tab. So you only enter the names once for your squad. Enter the times for each run as you go and excel does the calculation via formulas. After the stage you simply switch to the next tab and enter those times. There would be a summary tab or total tab, that all the scores are copied to in a format we decide on. This tab would be the one the score keeper would copy from each groups excel sheet into one, large sheet. I should be able to make the next event and am willing to do a test run along side the paper score sheets at least for my squad to see how it actually works in the heat of the moment before we try and move completely away from paper. All we need is 5 Android phones with an excel editor (there are free ones). Of course if someone who knows apple's better can figure that out then we can use anything that can edit an excel doc.

2 possible problems. Device batteries dying and accidentally exiting and not saving

 

[singlesix]

Somehow I read Dave Thomas, but typed Dave Berry. He was shooter 27. I am sorry for the error. I corrected the spreadsheet, the updated one should be up soon.

Sorry again for the error.

Updated copy posted.

 

[chizzle]

I can easily edit the spread sheet from my Android phone. Apple is...well Apple and i cannot easily save the spreadsheet from my email on the ipad. Im sure there is a way, i'm just not an apple person. But for any Android phone it would be very easy. Each stage would be on a separate tab so the screen wouldn't be overloaded with data. The names would be automatically copied over to each tab. So you only enter the names once for your squad. Enter the times for each run as you go and excel does the calculation via formulas. After the stage you simply switch to the next tab and enter those times. There would be a summary tab or total tab, that all the scores are copied to in a format we decide on. This tab would be the one the score keeper would copy from each groups excel sheet into one, large sheet. I should be able to make the next event and am willing to do a test run along side the paper score sheets at least for my squad to see how it actually works in the heat of the moment before we try and move completely away from paper. All we need is 5 Android phones with an excel editor (there are free ones). Of course if someone who knows apple's better can figure that out then we can use anything that can edit an excel doc.

2 possible problems. Device batteries dying and accidentally exiting and not saving

I think this is an interesting possibility. I would prefer to use a netbook (actual keyboard, could be owned by FNS) but I love the idea of testing the idea out along side the paper system for the short term. I'd really like a data entry sheet that would allow data input, while eliminating the possibility of accidentally deleting the scores. Don't forget, we have wireless at the range too....

 

[Tommy2Tone]

I think this is an interesting possibility. I would prefer to use a netbook (actual keyboard, could be owned by FNS) but I love the idea of testing the idea out along side the paper system for the short term. I'd really like a data entry sheet that would allow data input, while eliminating the possibility of accidentally deleting the scores. Don't forget, we have wireless at the range too....

A net book would be very easy, just need 5 of them. One problem with a net book may be seeing the keyboard. The problem with any device will be some sort of failure and the scores are gone or a delay. Paper will always need to be handy. If we did use a computer, heck even an Android tablet/phone the range could have a dropbox account with the 5 excel documents residing there. That would eliminate the need to email sheets after the match. If each scope keeper in each squad just saved after every person or every run. Ctrl+S isn't that hard. I will keep thinking of different options and consult some of my friends i went to school with.

 

[LLDJR]

Do the timers have any type of output,

I know iPads have Shot Timer apps, but it would be nice if we could just save the data after each run

 

[harokyle]

I hear you and agree. I think next time I will just snap a picture of my scores. Also, I just wanted to be able to sort and figured someone else could use the doc to do the same. Keep up the good work at fns. Oh and chuck, move to a different class so the rest of us have a chance!

Thats funny, at my first fns (a couple months ago) i was very excited to get 2nd in limited division but Chucks first place score was litterally half of my time.

 

[chizzle]

A net book would be very easy, just need 5 of them. One problem with a net book may be seeing the keyboard. The problem with any device will be some sort of failure and the scores are gone or a delay. Paper will always need to be handy. If we did use a computer, heck even an Android tablet/phone the range could have a dropbox account with the 5 excel documents residing there. That would eliminate the need to email sheets after the match. If each scope keeper in each squad just saved after every person or every run. Ctrl+S isn't that hard. I will keep thinking of different options and consult some of my friends i went to school with.

I checked out some tablets and netbooks tonight at HH Gregg and Sams. I was trying to use Google Docs and neither platform ran the Google Docs spreadsheet very well. I really like the size of the tablets, but the keyboards were somewhat finicky and defaulted to the QWERTY keyboard when you moved from cell to cell. My favorite ones were the Ipad and the Samsung (keypad similar to my droid phone).

I think we might need to use a spreadsheet that is actually on the device (not just networking directly to a common Google spreadsheet), but that the idea may still be viable. It will take a little work to figure out what the best method will be, and if it is cost effective.

 

[rala]

I know it's a pain to produce the reports, but I like having the chance to go back an see which stage I had trouble with and how it compared to the other shooters in my class. Post the xcel file and I'll run my own report. I've been bringing in some young shooters, and it would also make it easier to see and changes over time.

Now if I could just remember its Sight Alignment, Sight Picture then squeeze.

 

[Tommy2Tone]

I know it's a pain to produce the reports, but I like having the chance to go back an see which stage I had trouble with and how it compared to the other shooters in my class. Post the xcel file and I'll run my own report. I've been bringing in some young shooters, and it would also make it easier to see and changes over time.

Now if I could just remember its Sight Alignment, Sight Picture then squeeze.

Don't think they used excel. I already made an excel file though. That post has been buried a little though.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16983609/11.11.11.FNS.xls

 

[Deputy527]

CED has a new timer out, the CED7000PRO, just received it a few days ago. Includes complete scoring system with uploads/downloads. Entire course of fire and each shooters name can be inputted via a web page and loaded tothe timer in minutes. At the end, simply export. It has a complete steel challenge scoring program built in. Check out the videos and match setups on their website. Seems like a pretty simple solution.