Boy Scouts of America deal another blow to boyhood

[Liberty Sanders]

The fact that this is a legitimate and common question is disturbing. It is indicative that, as a society, we have lost all moral direction. Every bad choice made is based on prior circumstance and there can be no consequences. There IS a moral standard that, a long time ago, we all agreed upon.

A few years back when Indiana's prohibition on gay marriage was first struck down there was a window of about three days before the attorney general got a stay on it.

Two dear lady friends of my wife and I decided to go for it and got their marriage license the same day. The next day I served as a combination best man/ring bearer (I called myself the best STRAIGHT man) at their marriage. It's still one of the high points of my life that they hold me in such high regard that they honored this broken-down old flatfoot in such a way.

Yes, at one time there was a moral standard, that we all agreed on, that said these two wonderful ladies should not be able to marry.

That standard was wrong, and I'm glad to see it consigned to the ash heap of history.

 

[Lelliott8]

Morality is alive and well. There is only ONE truth, whether you choose to believe it or abide by it is your choice to make. The problem with this morality thing is much more far-reaching than something as trite as gay marriage. No... it's the fate our nation and whether a people can choose evil over good and still remain free from the consequences*.

*Hint: They can't.

 

[CavMedic]

Using the bible as a standard for morality is a slippery slope. I am sure you all love bacon, this forum seems to full of bacon lovers. well, punishable by death. have a loan with interest, DEATH! Are you wearing a cotton blend shirt, Death! Be a woman whose hymen doesnt rupture with sex, DEATH! Raping an egaged Virgin, Death! Raping an engaged widowed mother, not death. Having male on male sex, Death! Having female on female sex, not death....but wait you say, we don't follow the Old testament rules anymore. Awesome, cause the New Testament doesn't say S**t about gay marriage. Don't hide behind religion to mask your own feelings on the matter. Let's just follow what Jesus said about homosexuality...Oh wait

 

[ATM]

Using the bible as a standard for morality is a slippery slope. I am sure you all love bacon, this forum seems to full of bacon lovers. well, punishable by death. have a loan with interest, DEATH! Are you wearing a cotton blend shirt, Death! Be a woman whose hymen doesnt rupture with sex, DEATH! Raping an egaged Virgin, Death! Raping an engaged widowed mother, not death. Having male on male sex, Death! Having female on female sex, not death....but wait you say, we don't follow the Old testament rules anymore. Awesome, cause the New Testament doesn't say S**t about gay marriage. Don't hide behind religion to mask your own feelings on the matter. Let's just follow what Jesus said about homosexuality...Oh wait

The question was of perversion, not laws.

 

[gregr]

I don't believe in a creator. Who defines it for me?

Let me explain it just a bit like this: just like if you "decide" the law of gravity doesn`t really exist, and you step off the roof of your house, you`re still going to bust your butt. That is to say, your not accepting truth doesn`t make it untrue. This culture has decided that THEY define truth by belief or disbelief. It just doesn`t work that way.

 

[gregr]

The question was of perversion, not laws.

The Old Testaments laws were for the Old Testament church. The Grace of Jesus Christ did away with the mandate of the law, so no, there is no "slippery slope". And yes, the Bible does speak to sexuality and exactly how God designed marriage and the family.

 

[CavMedic]

Let me explain it just a bit like this: just like if you "decide" the law of gravity doesn`t really exist, and you step off the roof of your house, you`re still going to bust your butt. That is to say, your not accepting truth doesn`t make it untrue. This culture has decided that THEY define truth by belief or disbelief. It just doesn`t work that way.

Gravity is a quantifiable and measurable force, not accepting is silly beacuse it is something that is proven in a real world way. The Grace of God is not. It is not something that we as a people can measure, it is something that as a believer in that you chose to accept as a force that change your life. I do not believe in such a force. I have neither been "blessed" or smited for it. I just simply live my life. As to the laws/perversion thing, those laws defined perversions and the penalties for them (all being death).

 

[ATM]

...As to the laws/perversion thing, those laws defined perversions and the penalties for them (all being death).

The penalties remain death, so it might be worthwhile to understand how perversions are defined.

 

[gregr]

Gravity is a quantifiable and measurable force, not accepting is silly beacuse it is something that is proven in a real world way. The Grace of God is not. It is not something that we as a people can measure, it is something that as a believer in that you chose to accept as a force that change your life. I do not believe in such a force. I have neither been "blessed" or smited for it. I just simply live my life. As to the laws/perversion thing, those laws defined perversions and the penalties for them (all being death).

That was OLD Testament law...what`s the difficulty here? Jesus did away with that. And it`s your decision to believe that the Creator is not quantifiable, but that`s illogical. To believe that the complex human body just "happened" after some explosion from some "cosmic soup", and that all the complex details of this planet that sustain that human life "just happened", it would more likely that an explosion at a printing plant caused the Websters Dictionary to appear. Just because you choose to not accept truth, as truth, in no way takes away from the validity of truth. Contrary to what today`s culture and society want to believe, there by definition can be only one truth, not many.

 

[singlesix]

That was OLD Testament law...what`s the difficulty here? Jesus did away with that. And it`s your decision to believe that the Creator is not quantifiable, but that`s illogical. To believe that the complex human body just "happened" after some explosion from some "cosmic soup", and that all the complex details of this planet that sustain that human life "just happened", it would more likely that an explosion at a printing plant caused the Websters Dictionary to appear. Just because you choose to not accept truth, as truth, in no way takes away from the validity of truth. Contrary to what today`s culture and society want to believe, there by definition can be only one truth, not many.

So the old testament no longer applies? What did Jesus say about gay marriage or gays in general? Even if there is a creator what says that your version or the bible is the truth? How many belief systems are there currently?

 

[CavMedic]

Jesus told us that life and being born is a gift from God. He also said that eunuchs (which was used to refer to homosexual men) were that way form birth. So why would the almighty God create these morally inferior abominations?

 

[thunderchicken]

Ok so I haven't read every page/post in this thread, don't need to. Back on topic though. Here is the way it is/ was. There have been gays in Boy Scouts for a very long time. For many years it was kinda like the old military policy "Don't ask, don't tell". I joined cub scouts back in like '85 and am an Eagle Scout and volunteered as a leader until about 4yrs ago. I don't wish to get into a religious debate but fact is Christianity has always been a part of scouting. I do acknowledge it has evolved to be involved to a lesser degree than years past but it is there. One part of the scout oath is to "keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight". It is based on those good long standing Christian values period. To be honest I don't like the direction scouting is going with this issue.
I don't care how anyone "identifies", here it is ladies and gentlemen it's super simple. Just like a belly button it's either an inny or an outy and that determines if you are male or female period. Now as far as ones sexual orientation that's your choice not mine. It really doesn't matter to me. BUT this topic is about a PRIVATE ORGANIZATION that isn't for everyone so stop trying to force your set of values on private organizations. Start one that lines up with your set of values and stop trying to force groups, organizations, churches etc to change thier beliefs. As a Christian I don't have to agree with your beliefs to love you as a person and it doesn't make me value you any less.

 

[thunderchicken]

I feel like I need to share this for those who don't know or have forgotten. The Scout Oath
On my honor, I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country, to help other people at all times, to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

 

[ATM]

Voluntary associations were an important part of our heritage now lost to history.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I don't believe in a creator. Who defines it for me?

Opinion. It could be yours, mine, the guy down the road, it could be that of a bunch of folks in some smoke filled room.

Without an objective standard, perversion, morality, right and wrong is the product of opinion. You and a bunch of other people of like mind might agree but what if me and a bunch of other guys have a different opinion? Who decides? The guys with the most guns?

 

[actaeon277]

Voluntary associations were an important part of our heritage now lost to history.

Well, isn't this free association?
If I understand correctly, BSA changed their tune. The courts didn't.

But, I'm picturing that two different Scout organizations were started on this premise, and they failed miserably.

 

[1DOWN4UP]

The Pentagon spends roughly 2 million a year on the National Jamboree at Ft.A.P.Hill........Follow the money

 

[PistolBob]

The Pentagon spends roughly 2 million a year on the National Jamboree at Ft.A.P.Hill........Follow the money

The last National Jambo at AP Hill was in 2010. The scouts were kicked out by the feds and now the Jambo is held at The Summit Bechtel Family National Scout Reserve, West Virginia. The next National Jambo is this summer. They hold them every four years usually. this will be the second one at the WV location and anticipated attendance is about 40,000 over the course of the event. It will cost you $1400 per person to attend, plus you'll need about $600 in new uniforms.

 

[ATM]

Well, isn't this free association?
If I understand correctly, BSA changed their tune. The courts didn't.

But, I'm picturing that two different Scout organizations were started on this premise, and they failed miserably.

If it wasn't responding to the threat or vulnerability of being sued, perhaps. If it is a purely voluntary shift for BSA, I'd be somewhat surprised.

 

[Leadeye]

Have watched the Boy Scouts change since the 70s, sometimes I think they need to just shelve the organization and wait for better days.