Carrying and Alcohol

[bwframe]

It's a tough call.

With all due respect. When it's a tough call, you shouldn't be making it.

 

[SSGSAD]

In the immortal words, of Clint Eastwood, Dirty Harry, A man's got to know his limitations .....

 

[9mmfan]

Out after work on the occasional Friday, I usually have one beer if not eating and two if eating. A nap shortly after I get home is then on tap!

 

[bwframe]

Quite simply, a good shoot is a good shoot and a bad shoot is a bad shoot. ...

It's not that simple. Intoxicants affect your ability to perceive rule #4. What is a "good shoot" when you pull the trigger could turn into a "bad shoot" on the way to where the bullet stops.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I don't think the two are really analogous:

1. Keeping and bearing arms is explicitly a right. Driving a car is not. Driving a car is a privilege, subject to reasonable regulation by the State.

2. When bearing arms, 99.999999% of the time, the firearm remains holstered, and untouched by the bearer. Thus, carrying while under any level of influence of alcohol poses an extremely low risk of misuse of the firearm, or threat to bystanders. When driving a car, 100% of the time, the movement of several thousand pounds of mass and inertia are under the direct control of the driver. Thus, driving while under the influence of alcohol poses a risk of misuse of the vehicle, directly proportional to the degree of inebriation - and a commensurate risk of threat to bystanders.

3. The demonstrated public harm of driving under the influence of alcohol is orders of magnitude greater than the demonstrated public harm of misuse of firearms, whether under the influence of alcohol or not.

Either you missed my point or you skimmed my post.

 

[kickbacked]

No matter what all these nuns who have never smelled alcohol let alone passed out naked in the kitchen will tell you, it all comes down to you. If you are to the point you are making bad decisions you shouldnt be in public period, with a gun or without one.

 

[trailrider]

So it seems everyone agrees that drinking heavily and carrying is a bad idea..and irresponsible.

I still think someone full blown drunk has a right to defend himself , regardless of how well he will be able to do so.

just because someone made a decision to drink heavily doesn't mean they deserve to be a victim correct?

This is a non issue with me...when I drink I'm 10 feet tall AND bulletproof.

 

[cbhausen]

It's not that simple. Intoxicants affect your ability to perceive rule #4. What is a "good shoot" when you pull the trigger could turn into a "bad shoot" on the way to where the bullet stops.

And thus the circle is closed on my argument. That makes it a bad shoot then, right?

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

When I am carrying, I typically don't seek out a drink, like with dinner, etc.

However if I am doing something social where drinks are being served I might have a single beer, but never a second or more.

I try to treat drinking while carrying like driving. If I'm not sober enough to drive, I'm not sober enough to carry. Both are lethal weapons that can be devastating under control of someone under the influence.

That's where I am. I'm one and done if I'm carrying - IF I drink at all. My general personal rule is to not drink ANY and carry, just for liability.

 

[bwframe]

And thus the circle is closed on my argument. That makes it a bad shoot then, right?

I cannot readily discern your "argument."
It's a bad shoot when your bullet hits those other than the aggressor attempting to harm. Be it a miss, through and through, AD, whatever, your good intentions are massively trumped by the bad end result of an innocent being harmed or killed by your action. Whether this poor result can be associated with intoxication is up to the jury to decide.

 

[THE BIG SITT]

It is a question of specific intent.

You and the boys going to "drink" (especially if 25 and under), just leave the guns home.

Having a drink with dinner, no big deal.

To be completely safe, have a no booze when carrying policy.

I haven't read through all 7 pages of this thread, so I apologize if you have answered this elsewhere, but do you know of any cases of a SD shooting where the shooter (victim, defender, ect) had been drinking? If so, how did their drinking play a role in any convictions or lack-thereof?

 

[djsmith1000]

^I'd like to hear on this too. Surely there are plenty of cases. Anyone know of any? Also, I appreciate the rational discussion on the original question, rather than people strictly taking a CYA stance.

 

[Gluemanz28]

I would say that the majority of us have trained for self defense situations to be the best that we can be in a SD situation. The bottom line is that my goal is to be faster and more accurate than the person that I am defending myself from. I will take every advantage I can get including alcohol impaired judgement on their part.

 

[Dead Duck]

I would say that the majority of us have trained for self defense situations to be the best that we can be in a SD situation. The bottom line is that my goal is to be faster and more accurate than the person that I am defending myself from. I will take every advantage I can get including alcohol impaired judgement on their part.

I agree 100%
I always aim for the drunk guys first. They're slow.

 

[output]

I don't drink often either. It is nice to know that if I decide to go out and have a drink that I do not have to disarm. It is my belief that we all have the right to self preservation period. I know quite a few people that drink and a lot of them drink heavily. None of the people that I know personally (that drink heavily) and are prone to getting out of hand because of alcohol are legally allowed to own or carry a firearm. Likewise, all of the adults that I know that are able to legally carry all seem to be able to manage themselves just fine wile drinking. Some people just can't handle alcohol...but most of those people seem to cancel themselves out of the conversation on their own. I don't think we need a law to do it for us.

 

[slowG]

I cannot readily discern your "argument."
It's a bad shoot when your bullet hits those other than the aggressor attempting to harm. Be it a miss, through and through, AD, whatever, your good intentions are massively trumped by the bad end result of an innocent being harmed or killed by your action. Whether this poor result can be associated with intoxication is up to the jury to decide.

Being as how it is not illegal to drink and carry, could that be even allowed to be considered in a decision? He was robbed at gunpoint but he was drunk so let's convict.. I just dont see that making a difference?

Now if a by stander was injured.. Could there be some kind of negligence ... If it were illegal to be intoxicated while operating a firearm I could obviously see this argument but just curious from a legal standpoint.

 

[Somemedic]

Self defense shooting stats with alcohol involved or court rulings would be interesting

 

[bwframe]

Being as how it is not illegal to drink and carry, could that be even allowed to be considered in a decision? He was robbed at gunpoint but he was drunk so let's convict.. I just see that making a difference?

Now if a by stander was injured.. Could there be some kind of negligence ... If it were illegal to be intoxicated while operating a firearm I could obviously see this argument but just curious from a legal standpoint.

I'm sure all contributing factors will be considered when determining negligence and holding a shooter responsible for any poor decision made that results in innocents being harmed or killed.

 

[X piller X]

As far as I can tell...at least from the deposition testimony, no one has ever had more than "a couple of beers"​.

I generalized. To be specific, A couple beers would be a beer with my appetizer, and possibly another beer with my entree. If I drink more than that, I am at a bar, and not carrying regardless. Fortunately I set my own limits before arriving at the destination, and have yet to test that limit.

 

[mrortega]

I specifically don't EVER drink more than one light beer BECAUSE I'm either carrying or will be shortly. That means at good 'ole Catholic weddings I sip one cup of beer then a coke for a little caffeine balance. It's never worth drinking more when I may have to make a potentially life-changing decision with a firearm. I value being able to defend myself and loved ones more than "letting loose."