China Is Coming For America’s Farms And Food…

[ditcherman]

So you'll wield the power of gov't against the former owners of Smithfield farms to tell them who they can and can't sell to? All your non-interference s/gov't is tyranny/free market principal are outweighed by cheaper pork? You come over to my side that capitalism is harmful without regulation at a pretty low price once it affects your wallet, apparently.

I've already given you a fix. They can't take the farms or land home with them. We have methods within the law to reclaim property if it becomes an issue. We've frozen/seized assets of Russians over the Ukraine thing. We have import/export laws. We even have a law that allows for the direct seizure of food stockpiles from private sources in war time/extreme emergencies (every now and then INGO runs around the table flailing arms about that one). I don't see Americans starving to death due to the lack of pig kidneys yet, so we're probably not to the point it's an issue, but there are a multitude of remedies available that don't require a ban on foreign investment.

I agree with your logic, from a pure logic standpoint. But are we allowed to draw a line against foreign investment from sworn enemies, human rights violators, communists, etc? Are we allowed to stand up for what we believe or do we have to be faithful to pure logic and deny our sovereignty?

 

[BE Mike]

Negotiate what exactly?

You really need to learn about the Cold War if you think the Berlin Wall came down during a period when the U.S. was at an ebb in military strength.

 

[ghuns]

Which is sketchier; China's ownership of 190K acres of US agricultural land or Bill Gates owning 250K?

 

[Flash-hider]

Which is sketchier; China's ownership of 190K acres of US agricultural land or Bill Gates owning 250K?

You can add to that list, insurance companies, pension funds, hedge funds, investment firms, the list goes on and on of non-farmers who own farmland. But there are enough guys out there who will kill each other to get a chance to farm this ground.
Maybe the discussion should focus on, should these farms be eligible for government farm payments. In reality I believe that is one of the drivers that draw the above-mentioned entities to invest in farm ground because those payments are factored into the lease agreements.

 

[phylodog]

Maybe the discussion should focus on, should these farms be eligible for government farm payments. In reality I believe that is one of the drivers that draw the above-mentioned entities to invest in farm ground because those payments are factored into the lease agreements.

Probably gonna **** some people off here but government farm payments are ********. Go to an agricultural land auction and watch guys in bib overalls toss around hundreds of thousands of dollars like they're tossing pennies into a wishing well. Maybe they're proxy bidders for the Chinese but I doubt it. As with most things, what started out as an actual need has become a grossly abused government program which has become quite lucrative for those who know how to work the system.

 

[Ingomike]

Which is sketchier; China's ownership of 190K acres of US agricultural land or Bill Gates owning 250K?

Now you are ripping me in two…

 

[AtTheMurph]

You really need to learn about the Cold War if you think the Berlin Wall came down during a period when the U.S. was at an ebb in military strength.

You think the Berlin Wall would still be up and the Soviet Union still around?

The Soviet Union was doomed the day it came into existence. it was never going to last because Communism does not and will not ever work. It is always doomed to failure because it will go bankrupt, which is exactly what happened.

Reaganites claim it was the Cold War race tat bankrupted them. That's BS propaganda. The US could have saved trillions of dollars, countless lives and earned much more respect in the world if the cold war had never been fought.

But then again, all those MIC bureaucrats, corporations and assorted criminals wouldn't have gotten fabulously wealthy off our created fear of Soviets nuking us.

 

[AtTheMurph]

If you believe the money spent by communists beating out Americans for their own property is free market are not on the same page…

merely a result of the Triffin Dilemma and owning the world's reserve currency and sending trillions of fiat currency to China in exchange for crappy pieces of plastic.

The Chinese have to be able to spend those printed dollars somewhere, don't they? And where do they spend the best?

 

[AtTheMurph]

And no one seems to have a problem that China uses those printed dollar bills to buy debt issued by the US government. Who owns who in that situation?

 

[KLB]

I am pretty sure the USA is the only modern country that allows non citizens to own property on our soil.

I am pretty sure you are wrong.

European limitations on foreign property purchases

In Europe, no law prohibits foreign citizens from buying property but certain countries have put limitations on this right.

tranio.com

In Europe, no law prohibits foreign citizens from buying property but certain countries have put limitations on this right, often with regards to residency rights, property type or buyer category. For example, only residents can buy real estate in Liechtenstein. In Andorra, Hungary, Denmark, Iceland, Poland and Malta, foreign investors can only buy property after receiving approval from the local authorities.

Nevertheless, most major European countries (e.g., France, Germany, Italy, Spain and UK) allow overseas investors to buy residential and commercial real estate with the same rights as local citizens.

 

[Ingomike]

And no one seems to have a problem that China uses those printed dollar bills to buy debt issued by the US government. Who owns who in that situation?

I do…

 

[KLB]

And no one seems to have a problem that China uses those printed dollar bills to buy debt issued by the US government. Who owns who in that situation?

What leverage do you think that really gives them?

 

[AtTheMurph]

I do…

Why? Who is going to fund our profligate spending if not the people who end up with the fiat dollars created and backed from nothing and representing debt?

if you want to live an outsized lifestyle we have the perfect set up. We export dollars (actually Federal Reserve debt) and import real things. We are the ones who are pulling the scam on the rest of the world. it won't last but it is very good while it lasts.

 

[AtTheMurph]

What leverage do you think that really gives them?

it gives them more leverage over us because they produce things, their population understands that to put food on the table they need to work and they have suffered hardships recently.

The US on the other hand hasn't faced actual hardships in 2 generations, doesn't produce much and certainly not enough to supply ourselves to any degree that matches our consumption and there is no collective knowledge or understanding of what real hardships are.

So you tell me who has the leverage?

 

[KLB]

it gives them more leverage over us because they produce things, their population understands that to put food on the table they need to work and they have suffered hardships recently.

he US on the other hand hasn't faced actual hardships in 2 generations, doesn't produce much and certainly not enough to supply ourselves to any degree that matches our consumption and there is no collective knowledge or understanding of what real hardships are.

So you tell me who has the leverage?

Where is the relationship between that and owning some of our government debt?

 

[AtTheMurph]

I am pretty sure you are wrong.

European limitations on foreign property purchases

In Europe, no law prohibits foreign citizens from buying property but certain countries have put limitations on this right.

tranio.com

Foreigners Buying Land Overseas: Global Property Ownership Rules and Restrictions

Buying a second home in a foreign country can be difficult, but here at International Living we've done the groundwork for you already...

internationalliving.com

Better list. Go buy property almost anywhere in the world if it suits you.

Where is the relationship between that and owning some of our government debt?

because if the Chinese do not buy our government debt, one of three things needs to happen, none of which is any good.

1) The interest on US debt would need to increase, and probably substantially to get buyers for that debt. Simple supply and demand dictates that. That means debt service payments are higher and probably hundreds of billions of more than a trillion higher per year. So does the government enact austerity measures or do they print money from nothing? You know the answer and you should know the result.

2) US needs to find goods from other places. China will not sell US products in dollars if they have nowhere to spend or invest those dollars. Tell me where if not here? Tell me where US will get the goods they want to buy? I'm not seeing all this excess capacity laying idle across the globe that can soak up the demand today that cannot fill shortages. The US would have to pay much more meaning lower standards of livings, probably substantially lower. Do you want to be a politician as that realization is foisted upon millions of people?

3) With the Worlds largest manufacturing nation not trading in dollars the reserve currency will swing to something else. When that happens 100s of Trillions of dollars spread out across the globe will start flooding the USA looking to buy anything and everything of value. We will have the hyper inflation that economist have been searching for for years and cannot find. they can't understand that the USA has been exporting inflation and importing everything else.

And I did mean to type 100s of trillions of dollars. I've had this discussion with economists, multi-billon dollar money managers and others who should all know how it works but few of them get it. the say the US Treasury/Fed have a good handle on how many dollars are in the system but that is entirely incorrect.

Treasury/Fed have ZERO idea how many dollars are floating around the world's financial system because foreign banks do most big lending in "eurodollars". There are banks across the globe, unregulated by the Fed or US government fractionally reserve lending at 10:1 or 20:1 or 50:1 of their dollar reserves and creating trillions of US Dollars. Dollars are everywhere. And that doesn't even begin to touch on the derivatives markets, priced mostly in dollars with more hundreds of trillions of notional worth.

Anything that threatens US dollar supremacy as reserve currency is the black swan that takes this whole thing down. China has leverage. We really don't.

 

[BE Mike]

You think the Berlin Wall would still be up and the Soviet Union still around?

The Soviet Union was doomed the day it came into existence. it was never going to last because Communism does not and will not ever work. It is always doomed to failure because it will go bankrupt, which is exactly what happened.

Reaganites claim it was the Cold War race tat bankrupted them. That's BS propaganda. The US could have saved trillions of dollars, countless lives and earned much more respect in the world if the cold war had never been fought.

But then again, all those MIC bureaucrats, corporations and assorted criminals wouldn't have gotten fabulously wealthy off our created fear of Soviets nuking us.

There would have been no West Berlin if the US wasn't militarily strong during the Cold War. Your claims are isolationist BS that has been around for a long time. Isolationism never worked and never will. Those same corporations that made money from military production also won WWII. Isolationist thinking would have put the US in a fix when Hitler and Tojo took over, because we didn't have courage to think that some things are worth defending.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

That's the kind of outside the box thinking that'll make you a star at any processing plant.

I think the last time I voluntarily sought out and consumed a hot dog was maybe '02. I got a dirty water dog outside Wrigley because not doing so would be like going to Paris and not bothering to see the Eiffel Tower.

I overcame our Chinese overlords and bought a bunch of smoked sausages at Claus' German Meat Market yesterday, though. Like hot dogs for grownups or children who's taste buds have come in...

If I'm ever heading down your way I'll bring you a pack of dogs from Purdue's butcher shop. I'm not a big hot dog fan but these are good. Their garlic bologna is the bomb as well.

Cutting off pig lips is probably time consuming, but do you put the lipstick on before or after? Do they all get the same shade?

Don't know, not my department. But it is a good question. If you have a question about their bacon I might be able to help.

 

[AtTheMurph]

There would have been no West Berlin if the US wasn't militarily strong during the Cold War. Your claims are isolationist BS that has been around for a long time. Isolationism never worked and never will. Those same corporations that made money from military production also won WWII. Isolationist thinking would have put the US in a fix when Hitler and Tojo took over, because we didn't have courage to think that some things are worth defending.

That's a pretty binary way to think. There is nothing isolationist about being neutral and protecting one's self rather than being activist and creating problems, imagined enemies, and hobgoblins that must always be fought against and for no good reason.

Sure those corporations helped win the war, but those same corporations helped create the war. The US had no reason to fight in Europe. The Germans didn't attack Pearl Harbor.

The Japanese did but they did so because of what the USA was doing to them. We forced into the to war, but I guess that doesn't matter. We get to set the rules, change the rules and send millions of American's to die to protect........ I'm still trying to figure that out!

Are we protecting our right to impose on other countries, or are we protecting our right to self determinations while preventing it for others? You can try to say this or that would have happened but you have no actual idea what would have happened. If the USA had not forced Japan into war, the entire world today might just be a much much better place. No one knows.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

You can try to say this or that would have happened but you have no actual idea what would have happened.

Is that any different than what you're doing?