Ejected from Cabela's for open-carrying

[Scutter01]

Can I jam a fireplace poker through your black foot too???

Smartass you always have an answer don't you???

****I await your answer****

I'm the sneaky one, not the one with the nasty hoof.

 

[IndyBeerman]

Wow. I'm actually getting hate mail for expressing an opinion that differs from the mob mentality.

I'm anti-gun for thinking walking around in a store might scare the people in said store?
You want to drum me off the boards because I don't agree with the mob in this thread on one issue?

Yes, I understand what some people feel is the core issue here, that corporate policy seems to state one thing and local policy conflicts with that. Having worked in the corporate sector the majority of my adult life, I can tell you with great confidence that the people at corporate will always support local managers making conservative calls, and using their best judgement. A corporate policy is not necessarily a bill of rights for anyone to rampage around their store anyway they like.

Now for those of you who apparently feel an opposing viewpoint is somehow threatening to your very existance, by all means, ignore me. You're not someone I would really want to talk to anyway, if you just want me to parrot your opinions back to you verbatim and tell you how right you are. The rest of you, I value your opinions and enjoy the friendly debate.

Your basic argument fails with this because they have stated it's corporate policy to follow the store's state laws on open/concealed carry. It's not a gray area that is open for debate. People that have been asked to leave their store like Scutter do not and are not rampaging around the store.
Besides, if an AP ("Asset Protection") has a issue with it, it should have been them asking not her, it was probably her misguided attempt of thinking like a manager.

Let's try some role play this way, you're a manager at a major national store, your job to follow store policy, not to interpret it, clear, clean, cut and dry. I'm the owner/president of that store, your failure to follow this policy gets the rolling downhill from me and the other people who created that policy and writes YOUR check.

Now with me being the owner/president, now knows YOU have pissed off and on

a customer. Now having obtained this level of management or ownership has garnered me with some business savy and or sense and I know that for every customer that walks out the door ticked off about something (this instance being a shopping customer with a cart load of $$'s not being bought) that person will tell 10 plus souls, and then they will tell other souls of that displeasure.

It is has been stated that it takes 10 positive sales to over come 1 bad one, so you now have to work harder to keep/maintain business because people do not want to shop someplace if it's getting badmouthed because of a problem.

This particular instance has the ramifications of 3500+ souls who can make this mushroom to some very large numbers, minus the few who just don't get it like you.

BTW. for decades people walked around with guns on their person with no problem what so ever until liberal anti gun people decided it was not an appropriate thing to do.

So this would have been a whole lot better off if you would have just crapped on my doorstep and walked away. Nuff said.

 

[mikea46996]

I'm the sneaky one, not the one with the nasty hoof.

Damn thats right it has been awhile since I watched that movie, Waterboy is my favorite AS flick.

"Water Sucks,,, Gatorade is Better!!!"

"NO YOUR WRONG COLONEL SANDERS"

 

[Agent 007]

Im going in their on my next day off and see what they do. This stuff is ridiculous. I think everyone should start going in there open carrying and lets just drive them nuts. We should definitely do an open carry event. When can we schedule one or will someone schedule one??? I work midnights but I will go sleep deprived to show up.

Just what Indiana gun owners need....an angry, sleep deprived openly armed individual to purposely cause a confrontation with them. They've already made it clear that they don't want you there. Take your business elsewhere. Is it really that hard to grasp? God, the social ineptness of some of you is breathtaking! You insist on carrying a gun openly to a place where it obviously makes people uncomfortable, and when you are asked to leave, you get mad and plan to go back and take more armed people with you to cause a confrontation.

Do any of you understand what private property is? It doesn't matter what corporate policy is, the people directly in charge of the store are allowed to make decisions on something like this as they see fit. You're not going to get anyone "fired" by complaining to corporate....the reality of the situation is that corporate is going to get tired of dealing with the hassle and just post a "no open carry" sign. I'm SURE that's what their lawyers will tell them to do, without a doubt. Liability is a funny thing when you are running a business, and you are trying to make a profit. It only takes one idiot to do something stupid.

Then the TINY minority of LTCH holders who just have to open carry everywhere they go will have to shop somewhere else, since being repeatedly ejected out of the store is not enough of a hint. The vast majority of people with LTCH carry concealed and (thank God) are socially conscious enough to respect the wishes of others in certain situations.

I don't go where I'm not welcome. (Except maybe on the internet, in this thread, since the "collective" has decided that anyone with a differing opinion on the appropriateness of open carry is a "troll.") I would feel welcome anywhere, and I've never been thrown out of ANY business for carrying a handgun....maybe because I don't feel the need to display the handgun. Honestly, I'll never understand this open carry fetish. While afield or in the boondocks....fine, I get that. It's convenient and expected. In a crowded urban store, against the wishes of the employees and drawing stares of people who are unaccustomed to it? Not me. I can see past the nose on my face.

Yeah, I know. I'm arrogant, I'm a troll, I'll be on ignore, blah blah blah. Flame away, Borg collective. This board would be an awfully boring place if it was filled with people patting each other on the butt for standing up to the 20 year old clerk at Cabela's. God forbid you have to cover your pistol for 15 minutes.

 

[Scutter01]

Do any of you understand what private property is? It doesn't matter what corporate policy is, the people directly in charge of the store are allowed to make decisions on something like this as they see fit. You're not going to get anyone "fired" by complaining to corporate....the reality of the situation is that corporate is going to get tired of dealing with the hassle and just post a "no open carry" sign. I'm SURE that's what their lawyers will tell them to do, without a doubt. Liability is a funny thing when you are running a business, and you are trying to make a profit. It only takes one idiot to do something stupid.

I agree with you and that's why I requested that people no longer shop there rather than have a group "OC Day". In this case, however, Cabela's has a clearly-stated policy welcoming armed shoppers (openly or otherwise) and they have a sign at the entrance saying that carrying firearms is allowed. It's like saying "Come on in! We love you!" and then smacking you with a five-iron when you step through the door. They clearly don't want my business and I'm more than happy to comply. But until they change both their company policy and their signage, I don't think it's either fair or right to change their minds after you walk through the door.

I understand the ramifications of OC and am perfectly prepared to be asked to leave. However, this was never about OC in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Agent 007]

This particular instance has the ramifications of 3500+ souls who can make this mushroom to some very large numbers, minus the few who just don't get it like you.

Do a poll to see who open carries and who conceal carries on this board. With the number of LTCH holders in this state, I KNOW that most people CC. People who insist on open carry are a small FRACTION of gun owners, and I'm sure if every open carrier in the state of Indiana stopped going to Cabela's they wouldn't even notice. Their target market is WAY bigger than a few people who can't stand to go anywhere without their pistol exposed.

 

[Scutter01]

I've had to remove several posts from this thread that either included name-calling or were close enough as to make no difference. Please keep it civil.

I'm going to say this one last time and then I'm done:

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BEING EJECTED FROM CABELA'S FOR OC.

If you have a problem with OC vs CC, that's fine. I didn't ask for your opinion on the topic of OC vs CC, but you're still entitled to give it. You'll notice that those opinions are still in this thread, no one has been banned, and the thread hasn't been closed. What I would ask, though, is that you take that particular discussion to one of the dozen or so other threads on the subject and keep it out of this one.

Thank you.

 

[Hoosier8]

I agree with you and that's why I requested that people no longer shop there rather than have a group "OC Day". In this case, however, Cabela's has a clearly-stated policy welcoming armed shoppers (openly or otherwise) and they have a sign at the entrance saying that carrying firearms is allowed. It's like saying "Come on in! We love you!" and then smacking you with a five-iron when you step through the door. They clearly don't want my business and I'm more than happy to comply. But until they change both their company policy and their signage, I don't think it's either fair or right to change their minds after you walk through the door.

I understand the ramifications of OC and am perfectly prepared to be asked to leave. However, this was never about OC in any way, shape, or form.

Imagine the problem of hiring the handicapped and still trying to get your business. If I got a nickle for every time I got a call from someone in the company asking me a question when they could have read the manual, I would be a nickleair.

I will not stop going there, mainly because it is the only thing to look forward to on my drive, but I will expect to see what kind of response you get from management. Sorry for maybe missing this, but did you get the name of the person that asked you to leave? Maybe not. I would understand why if upset as I would have been but let's see if we can get some kind of answer from management.

I am willing to approach management the next time I drive through which will be the first of May. If so, let me know what you would like answers too. Give me a list and I will present it. I would like answers from management in writing.

P.S. I am older, graying and people actually listen to me and think I know what I am talking about. Dang it has taken a long time to get to this point.

 

[Agent 007]

You know, at first, I thought...."How can this NOT be about OC? The whole thing would not have even happened if you were CC'ing." Then I read your original post again. It dawned on me what the problem was.

OC'ing an XD? Really? Don't you have any decency, sir? I'd have thrown you off the property as well. NOBODY should have to look at those hideous things in public. Sweet Mother of Pearl, man.....think of the children!

 

[tv1217]

Not like it matters, but this was on the bottom floor, wasn't it?

 

[Hoosier8]

You know, at first, I thought...."How can this NOT be about OC? The whole thing would not have even happened if you were CC'ing." Then I read your original post again. It dawned on me what the problem was.

OC'ing an XD? Really? Don't you have any decency, sir? I'd have thrown you off the property as well. NOBODY should have to look at those hideous things in public. Sweet Mother of Pearl, man.....think of the children!

Funny.

 

[Scutter01]

You know, at first, I thought...."How can this NOT be about OC? The whole thing would not have even happened if you were CC'ing." Then I read your original post again. It dawned on me what the problem was.

OC'ing an XD? Really? Don't you have any decency, sir? I'd have thrown you off the property as well. NOBODY should have to look at those hideous things in public. Sweet Mother of Pearl, man.....think of the children!

I know you're being glib and that's fine. I'm going to ignore the XD comment because I'm assuming it's out of jealousy over my awesome pistol.

In one of my previous posts, I mentioned "What if you were wearing a Colts jersey". What if? What if you were wearing sandals, or if you shopped while black? Holy God! Can you imagine if they had said "Why should we have to look at you?" to someone shopping while black??! They have a public bathroom. Their public policy is that the bathroom is available for your use. What if you were kicked out for using the bathroom with the comment "Why should we have to look at that?"

The OC was just a catalyst. It was irrelevant. It didn't change the fact that I was treated shabbily for doing nothing wrong at all. I was following their own policy and breaking no laws.

 

[Lex Concord]

I know you're being glib and that's fine. I'm going to ignore the XD comment because I'm assuming it's out of jealousy over my awesome pistol.

In one of my previous posts, I mentioned "What if you were wearing a Colts jersey". What if? What if you were wearing sandals, or if you shopped while black? Holy God! Can you imagine if they had said "Why should we have to look at you?" to someone shopping while black??! They have a public bathroom. Their public policy is that the bathroom is available for your use. What if you were kicked out for using the bathroom with the comment "Why should we have to look at that?"

The OC was just a catalyst. It was irrelevant. It didn't change the fact that I was treated shabbily for doing nothing wrong at all. I was following their own policy and breaking no laws.

Have you considered E-mailing Larry Pratt at GOA? They are good about spreading the word far and wide, which would surely prompt a quick about-face.

 

[VN Vet]

To All: I have always thought that if the entire world choose to wear Tropical Shirs, Khacki Short and sandles, this entire place would be a nicer and more friendlier place to live. There is just something about colorful shirts, shorts and sandles make some people smile.

I as one, believe that more smiles the better. I also believe that all men are my friends until proven otherwise. I always think good before bad. Yes I have been burned a few times, but I have been rewarded many more times.

I wear my Tropic Shirts both tucked in and untucked. There is a reason you know, besides your Mom telling you to tuck you shirt in.

Both sides of this thread have made valid points and we are all Free Men to make those points. So, please all let us untuck our shirts and shake hands.

Please pay attention to my Signature Statement. It has worked wonders for me over the years.

May God Bless all of us with Understanding and Thankfullness for our differences.

 

[IndyBeerman]

Do a poll to see who open carries and who conceal carries on this board. With the number of LTCH holders in this state, I KNOW that most people CC. People who insist on open carry are a small FRACTION of gun owners, and I'm sure if every open carrier in the state of Indiana stopped going to Cabela's they wouldn't even notice. Their target market is WAY bigger than a few people who can't stand to go anywhere without their pistol exposed.

GEEE WHIZZZZ Wally (in my best Leave it to Beaver voice)
It's not about CC/OC It's about corporate vs. store policy. At what point does ones mind cease to function and lock this in on a how it's carried on your person debate.

I'm beginning to look at this in a real simple way to explain.

Dad, who owns the house says it's fine to carry that can of beer into the house, regardless of whether it's in my buddies hand or coat pocket.
Oldest child runs up to said buddy after he enters the house and screams at my buddy saying you're not allowed to have that beer YOU HAVE TO LEAVE. That in turn should result in the oldest child getting the opportunity of having their nose in the corner or punishment. Future failure to follow the parent results in corporal punishment.

It's real simple, dad made the law of the house and it's to be followed, it's not a maybe, or a could be, or a might be this or that way, it's DAD's way that is supposed to be followed.

Oh I now know how and why this has happened being the dad that I am and that my house is in the hamlet of Hammond, the youngest child little Boo Hoo Betty thinks she now has control of said house, and that the house has been annexed into the People's Republic of Illinois as a offical suburb of Chicago where guns err BEER are illegal to carry.

So how can people misconstrue the following statement:
Cabela’s company policies are intended to be aligned with applicable federal, state and local laws. Accordingly, each store location has adopted policies to comply with the laws governing the state, county and city in which the store is located.
Indiana has a LTCH, does not say we have to carry one way or another, just that it allows us to carry our personal firearm.

 

[Lawguns]

I agree that stores have the choice to allow or disallow the carry in their store, however to say that they should not have to look at that just offends me. I might have had to make it a race thing even though I am white. I also agree that if they are not going to allow it then we as gun owners should boycott the store. It’s to bad since they carry so many nice things I covet.

I would like to point out that you are more then welcome to carry your loaded gun in my store as long as it stays in the holster and only comes out to shoot the robbers. I know I should not have to make that point but all I need in another person coming in to have a gun worked on and hand me a loaded gun.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Now, I am as pro-gun as it gets. I concealed carry pretty much at all times. I can, however, see where the store managers may be coming from.

Most of the people on this board are intelligent and skilled markmen. However, how many of us know friends that own guns that are idiots? Ones that have accidentally discharged weapons, etc? A former friend of mine lost his life showing someone how safe a 45 grip safety was by aiming the gun at his head. Unfortunately he still had a good enough grip to release the safety. This friend worked at a gun store and was very knowledgeable.

If I had a store, and you walked into it with a gun in plain sight, I am thinking there are many potential problems. For starters, you may be a threat. I don't know you have a LTCH. I don't know that you aren't a kook. I don't know that you aren't going to unholster it to show it to someone, even an employee. Accidents happen, and any accidents that happen on their property the business can get sued for. For the store owner, there are no upsides to you wandering the building armed. If they get robbed and you just happen to be standing there, the last thing management would want is for you to go Charles Bronson and start shooting. Policy is to hand over the loot and call the cops, not to confront and maybe get some people killed in the process.

So in summary, the best move for them is to ask you to leave. Whether you can exercise your right is meaningless to them, you are a liability in their eyes, and frankly, you're on private property. They have the right, just like you do in your own home, to set the standard of what they will tolerate in their own building, for the safety of themselves and the customers you may chase off with your "scary" exposed gun.

For me, I can defend myself and the loved ones with me....while at the same time, not scaring the sheeple. They can't ask me to leave if they don't know it's there.

No, you're not. You're like those hunters who say assault rifles are useless and should be banned, they'll never touch your hunting rifles and shotguns. Their store has repeatedly acted against corporate policy.

With all due respect, Nakatomi, Nate is correct; "No, you're not." You may consider yourself "pro-gun", but your statements above are very anti-gun-owner. Anyone "might be a kook" or might not have a LTCH (that's not your worry), and if my store is being robbed, I don't give a crap about policy; I want peaceable citizens who respect the RKBA to defend the lives of my employees and customers. (though if it's my store, my employees would not be restricted from carrying their lawfully owned and carried firearms, and would probably be encouraged to do so.)

"As pro-gun as it gets" would be, "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

A prisoner in a jail could be restricted from exercising his rights. A mental patient in a secure facility could likewise. We do not restrict rights of free people in fear of "what they might do" or "what they might be". If someone is scared of a gun, an object, that person has the responsibility to educate him- or herself as to why the object is not to be feared. (i.e. are you scared of cars? No? People in cars kill more other people than do people with guns.... and there are more guns than there are cars in this country!)

May a property owner control his property? Of course, but he must accept the consequences. We're not forced to go there, and I will not do so.

I also think that a clear, polite, and firm letter to corporate, informing them that on April 18th, the day before the anniversary of the first shot of the Revolutionary War that led to the creation of this country, one of their employees was sent by "her AP" (interesting that that person was kept anonymous, no?) to tell a paying customer that he had to leave because they shouldn't have to look at him exercising his rights. (Note that a LEO OCing is not "exercising his rights", as that firearm was issued to him and in most cases, if he chooses to keep that job, he is required to be armed.) Again, though, it's perfectly OK and not objectionable to look at if he claimed to be a LEO.

They lose enough money or are faced with enough potential loss of revenue, APs and other lamebrains like that will not be permitted to misrepresent their store any more.

Scutter, sorry for the . I hope you got names, but I would not be surprised if you did not.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Rattlesnake46319]

Since I'm lazy and haven't bothered to read through the entire thread -

Scutter, you might also want to fire off a Letter to the Editors of the Times and Gary Post-Tribune.

 

[finity]

I bought a handgun at Gander Mountain in Greenwood once. After the sales transaction the salesman said that I had to be escorted outside and that I couldn't have my new purchase until I was out the door. If I knew that this was their policy I never would have bought the gun. Didn't like the way it made me feel and it ticked me off. I can be trusted to buy a firearm from them but I can't be trusted to carry it through the store.

I've bought several guns at the Gander Mountain Ft. Wayne & have never been escorted out of the store afterwards. Both long guns & handguns.

After you were escorted out you should have tucked the gun in your belt & walked back in to 'continue shopping'. Interesting to see their reaction to that. After all, you haven't violated store policy (assuming you had valid carry license).

 

[finity]

Starting at the opening of business tomorrow 10:00am CDT, I believe we should call the Hammond Cabela's Store Manager on duty (219) 845-9040 to ask for a clarification of their OC policy. Continue throughout the day if the line is busy to get in your 'vote'! Hundreds of phone calls, might get their attention. I live about two miles away from Hammond Cabelas and consider it good for da Region. How disappointing!

+1 on that suggestion.

Also stopping by & talking to the store manager letting him know that you had planned to make a purchase in his store but now won't because of this (& other) event.

I would also point out to the manager that you talk to where this event is being spread so that they can realize that they are not just pissing off one customer but potentially thousands in their home area (IN store, IN forum) & might put it all into perspective for them.