For Those That Carry On an Empty Chamber

[X piller X]

When I first started carrying, I carried unloaded. I wanted to get used to having the weapon on my side before I carried it loaded.

this exactly!!

it only took me a week of carrying before i realized that my gun would not have fired by itself had it been loaded. I practiced unholstering and holstering unloaded, and never even once almost accidentally pulled the trigger.

 

[Tanfodude]

When someone asks about carrying loaded, offer to take them to a range. Give them a weapon without a round in the chamber, and tell them they have 5 seconds to chamber a round and fire two shots at a target 10 feet a way. I'd bet $10 that less than 10% can do it.

Do I have to draw? Mag in the well? I'll take the bet.

 

[steveh_131]

Interesting thread.

Started carrying with a Glock 21. The lack of an external safety made me nervous.

Most of my fears revolved more around my own absent-mindedness than fear of the gun being mis-handled by myself. What if I take it off and set it on the nightstand and the kids come and grab it? That sort of thing.

While I carried on an empty chamber, I tried to develop good habits. Check for obstructions while I'm holstering. Finger off the trigger. Gun either on my belt or in a safe place at all times. I went through a few holsters, found one with good retention and no possible obstructions (crossbreed).

Now I feel more comfortable carrying with one in the pipe.

I am going to parrot T-Lex up above. It has always bothered me when people compared carrying a gun without one in the pipe to carrying a 'paperweight'. In the spectrum of situations that I might encounter, many of them would allow time for me to chamber a round after I draw. Yes, I was causing myself a handicap in a smaller percent of the situations, but I weighed the pros and cons and made my decision. Spending some time developing safe habits worked out fine for me.

There is nothing wrong with knowing your limitations and including that in your risk calculation.

 

[Expatriated]

One common theme (correct me if I'm wrong those that carry/carried unchambered) is the lack of trust. Not necessarily in the gun's mechanics but in your actions. You felt like you couldn't trust yourself to do the right thing 100% of the time? Or, put another way, you weren't able to trust yourself yet that you WOULDN'T do something unsafe or negligible?

 

[JohnMcClane]

Agreed about the trust aspect. I have carried for only a couple of months. I have sat through my basic pistol course, but I still have a mental/emotional component that must be overcome. The more I learn, the more I train, the more trust and comfort I gain. Fact will win out against emotion over time because I am interested in finding the truth rather than just letting my emotions dictate my actions/beliefs, but this is a trained response for me. At first I didn't carry, then I actually carried empty, and now loaded but not chambered. I didn't grow up around firearms and all that I know I learned in the last year. I am planning on taking my self defense in the home course soon, and then the defense outside the home after that.

 

[CitiusFortius]

It's really hard to have a negligent discharge with no bullet in the chamber. Human error is inevitable, and it is more likely that you'll hurt yourself than use your gun in a self defense situation.

I do carry plus 1, but it doesn't bother me in the least when others don't.

 

[aaron580]

I carried my 1911 today with the hammer down and one in the chamber due to not having a proper holster. NEVER carry empty, get training.

 

[Amishman44]

When someone asks about carrying loaded, offer to take them to a range. Give them a weapon without a round in the chamber, and tell them they have 5 seconds to chamber a round and fire two shots at a target 10 feet a way. I'd bet $10 that less than 10% can do it.

Please send me your $10!!! I can do it in under 5 seconds and put 2 shots within the '9' circle from 21'...consistently!

We have young children in the house and we live with the risk that we will have time to chamber + fire vs having one of our kids inadvertently gain access to a pistol and be able to simply pull the trigger and have a very negative result. You can make whatever argument you want...but keep in mind, we have made our choice! The wife and I both train and shoot that way!

Realistically, If you don't think you'll have the 1/2 second of time to chamber a round after you've drawn your pistol to shoot...you've probably already allowed someone to get too close in the first place! Situational and spacial awareness still supercedes the need for a gun! If you're not doing that first...and recognize when it's simply time to leave vs get into a fight...you've probably already failed!

On the flip side...how many people are aware of what's going on around them sufficiently to even be able recognize when and where they may need a gun...much less be able to make the decision to draw and fire?

 

[Mark 1911]

Years ago when I first started carrying, my first carry piece was a revolver, I carried on an empty chamber. When I got into 1911s I had already been carrying and shooting for a while, so I never had the apprehension about carrying with a round in the chamber.

But as the OP stated, he is looking for feedback for training purposes. Here's mine. I once dropped a loaded 1911 that was in the cocked and locked position. It was holstered, I was walking from my house to the garage, had the holstered pistol under my arm and a coffee mug in the other hand. I slipped on some ice and the holstered pistol hit the concrete. It landed on the thumb safety. It was a hard hit, it damaged the pistol and I had to have some repairs done before I could use it again. But even with such a hard impact, IT DID NOT DISCHARGE. That should give the skeptics confidence to carry a 1911 cocked and locked.

Thanks to some fine doctoring by AllenM, that same 1911 is still my EDC today.

 

[seldon14]

I carried my 1911 today with the hammer down and one in the chamber due to not having a proper holster. NEVER carry empty, get training.

There is no excuse for someone with "training" carrying a 1911 hammer down on a live round in an improper holster.

 

[DrWin]

When I was starting out, I used to carry with an empty chamber. This was simply because while I knew the four rules and applied them, I still had some inherent uneasiness and discomfort. I was afraid that somehow, something would magically and invisibly get into my holster while holstering and would cause the trigger to be pulled. Of course, a few weeks later, I stopped such nonsense, became more comfortable and started carrying one in the chamber. I do try to keep my paranoia up in order to maintain vigilance and prevent complacency.

Then it was because I didn't like the chambering and unchambering the round in the evening when I got home and prior to leaving.

This was another thought that I had as well.

 

[aaron580]

There is no excuse for someone with "training" carrying a 1911 hammer down on a live round in an improper holster.

Oops, sorry I do not meed your qualifications for a "trained" person, I would rather be more careful than less. That speaks volumes. My holsters are in the mail currently. If I am not carrying a gun in its proper holster, I am cautions. Should I have open mexican carried instead?

 

[seldon14]

Oops, sorry I do not meed your qualifications for a "trained" person, I would rather be more careful than less. That speaks volumes. My holsters are in the mail currently. If I am not carrying a gun in its proper holster, I am cautions. Should I have open mexican carried instead?

If you wanted to be more carefull you probably shouldn't be carrying hammer down on a 1911, or carrying in an improper holster, being more careful would be carrying a gun as intended, not lowering hammers on live rounds, and using a correct holster.

 

[JetGirl]

There is no excuse for someone with "training" carrying a 1911 hammer down on a live round in an improper holster.

Agreed.
There's an "instructor" (and I use that term LOOSELY) who does the Utah non-res classes. I think he's done some at Gander in the Fort and down around Marion/Gas City, too. He advises "hammer down" carry. I've argued tons of times with him. I can't believe he doesn't know any better.

Should I have open mexican carried instead?

If you have a round in the chamber of a 1911, cocked and LOCKED is the safest method.
If you're afraid of a drop or bump...the original "safe position" (before the thumb safety was added to the 1910, making it the "new model" 1911), the half cock sear was intended for that purpose.

 

[aaron580]

Agreed.
There's an "instructor" (and I use that term LOOSELY) who does the Utah non-res classes. I think he's done some at Gander in the Fort and down around Marion/Gas City, too. He advises "hammer down" carry. I've argued tons of times with him. I can't believe he doesn't know any better.


If you have a round in the chamber of a 1911, cocked and LOCKED is the safest method.
If you're afraid of a drop or bump...the original "safe position" (before the thumb safety was added to the 1910, making it the "new model" 1911), the half cock sear was intended for that purpose.

I've always known to carry the 1911 cocked and locked, but gotta be honest, I see exactly why hammer down isn't advised in the slightest. My moment of dumbassery has ceased. First gun I ever carried was a 1911, but carry nothing but glocks since. No idea where my mind is...

 

[Motorhead302]

for people concerned about an AD from the gun being bumped/jostled, have you considered a demonstration? when the ruger sr9 was first recalled for the drop fire issue, massad ayoob did an article where he tested his for the problem by pointing it down range and striking the back of the slide with a rubber mallet. maybe something like this would help someone unfamiliar with the mechanics of a firearm to understand just how unlikely the gun being smacked around causing a discharge is.
after all, every gun ever dropped in a movie or on tv goes off, so i think a lot of people who don't have a lot of hands on experience have that image in their head.

 

[nakinate]

I carried empty at first due to inexperience and crappy gear. Once I became more familiar and got good gear then I went chambered. I knew it was tactically foolish to carry unchambered, but I didn't have the gear or experience.

 

[hpclayto]

I feel like it has a lot to do with people don't really understand how most modern day firearms function.

 

[17 squirrel]

Here is a interesting read on this topic.

The Thinking Gunfighter: THE MYTHS OF THE ISRAELI METHOD OF CARRY, or why carrying chamber empty isn?t so bad.

 

[T.Lex]

For those that insist chambered is the only good way to carry, why have a holster at all? Why not literally carry the firearm in your hand all the time?

If you don't, aren't you unprepared for all those attacks that happen so fast you can't even draw?