For Those That Carry On an Empty Chamber

[JollyMon]

While I normally carry with one in the pipe and suggest everyone does... I have been carrying on an empty chamber for a few months now.... I know flame on....I actually have been doing this for a reason that I deem important, and maybe I am just being overly cautious.

My child is still really young (and yes, I know all your 10 month old children know not to touch your firearms, hot stoves, play with cords, can swim like Phelps, and you dont even have to watch them). With me rolling around on the ground playing, the odds of my LCP coming out of my pocket are increased based on whichever pants I have on that day. I don't want those precious seconds between when it happens to when I notice for my child to get a hold of it and do something that I would regret for the rest of my life.... I decided that was enough of a risk in my mind to train and practice chambering a round during drawing until I feel that my child knows better (which I hope is soon).

 

[cbhausen]

For those that insist chambered is the only good way to carry, why have a holster at all? Why not literally carry the firearm in your hand all the time?

If you don't, aren't you unprepared for all those attacks that happen so fast you can't even draw?

FIFY...

And that would be a good way to get shot or be the subject of endless MWAG calls.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Sorry for bringing back the dead but I found a good article at Ammoland and wanted to tag it on the end here: Woefully Ignorant, Or Willfully Ignorant?

 

[Dosproduction]

When at home i do not carry one lined up with the barrel. But i carry a revolver so the first shot is ready to go. Just how i do at home.

 

[bmiley1963]

I hope your friend never has to find out if he has time to "chamber one". What if you are in a struggle? What if your off hand is injured? Has he done any training on trying to chamber a round without his off hand. I had a trainer show us how to rack the slide with the sole of our shoe. Very difficult but if mastered can be effective. You just never know.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

It depends.

G20: When I carry in the wild and the possibility of animal encounter is real I chamber a round. When I carry and my SA tells me where I'm going is possible bad guy territory I chamber a round. All else I do not because I'm relatively new to glock's trigger - neither SA nor DA. So, when I practice with my G20 I practice both ways; my overhand rack is pretty quick.

1911: I never could get used to a cocked trigger, so when I carry the 1911 it's always on an empty chamber and I overhand rack the same as the G20.

Beretta 92F: This is the pistol I'm most comfortable carrying. The stiff DA pull is what I grew up with - much like a revolver - and I know I can be in a hurry, nervous and safe with a loaded chamber. Therefore, I always carry this weapon with a loaded chamber.

 

[iChokePeople]

I had a trainer show us how to rack the slide with the sole of our shoe. Very difficult but if mastered can be effective. You just never know.

If this trainer was showing you that technique as an alternative to carrying with a round chambered, he/she should never teach again and you should find a new trainer. That's a valid and valuable technique... but not intended to give you a warm fuzzy about carrying an empty gun.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

It depends.

G20: When I carry in the wild and the possibility of animal encounter is real I chamber a round. When I carry and my SA tells me where I'm going is possible bad guy territory I chamber a round. All else I do not because I'm relatively new to glock's trigger - neither SA nor DA. So, when I practice with my G20 I practice both ways; my overhand rack is pretty quick.

1911: I never could get used to a cocked trigger, so when I carry the 1911 it's always on an empty chamber and I overhand rack the same as the G20.

Beretta 92F: This is the pistol I'm most comfortable carrying. The stiff DA pull is what I grew up with - much like a revolver - and I know I can be in a hurry, nervous and safe with a loaded chamber. Therefore, I always carry this weapon with a loaded chamber.

Brother, I don't have the credentials that would lead you to view what I'm about to say with any authority but I'd encourage you to re-think your strategy. Any time you pull your gun out of a holster and begin handling it like you're talking about above, there's increased opportunity for a mistake. The safest place for your gun, especially while out in public, is in your holster, ready to go. Removing it from your holster, racking, press-checking, re-holstering, and all the associated handling when your SA radar goes off -- *shudder* -- as an INGO friend, I encourage you to rethink this.

 

[Cameramonkey]

It depends.

G20: When I carry in the wild and the possibility of animal encounter is real I chamber a round. When I carry and my SA tells me where I'm going is possible bad guy territory I chamber a round. All else I do not because I'm relatively new to glock's trigger - neither SA nor DA. So, when I practice with my G20 I practice both ways; my overhand rack is pretty quick.

1911: I never could get used to a cocked trigger, so when I carry the 1911 it's always on an empty chamber and I overhand rack the same as the G20.

Beretta 92F: This is the pistol I'm most comfortable carrying. The stiff DA pull is what I grew up with - much like a revolver - and I know I can be in a hurry, nervous and safe with a loaded chamber. Therefore, I always carry this weapon with a loaded chamber.

JFC in a quality holster and you have nothing to worry about. The Glock trigger group and firing mechanism is safe as demonstrated for decades by millions. They dont go boom on their own, even when dropped.

And as to the 1911, I used to be the same way. Just remember that the Glock is sitting in the same position as your 1911; you just cant SEE the "hammer". Once I realized that my 1911 cocked and locked was pretty much in the same condition as my Glock, I never looked back.

As Long as either my Glock or 1911 is secured in a holster I (we) have nothing to fear.

 

[Bfish]

I want to play, especially since you are using this for students. I also had this dilemma when I started to carry and I argue with people about it all of the time. Logic and being confident in yourself is what overcomes this... Basically overcoming some "fears" but mainly just going against everything that had been taught by growing up with guns, but not around many people that carry them.

I was always taught my whole life that loaded guns are dangerous (when not handled correctly), that you should always unload them when they are not being used, be mindful of your safety, where you point it etc. I was constantly taught these things and many more from age 3 when I received my first bb gun. My problem then became that in my mind loaded guns are dangerous, and while they are, they are supposed to be. It is the (when not handled correctly) that took my mind some time to come around to. When I began to think about carrying a gun without a safety, or a traditional one, that also was a stumbling block for me... Once I began to logically think about how many people carry a loaded gun I began to think about how it can only be so unsafe but it was still hard to get past in reality it is still "dangerous" and thats when I got to the (not handled correctly) and that is where I made my mental change. That is a process of many thoughts I won't delve into. But basically I think that many people have is overcoming what they have been taught their whole lives. For me it just took about 5 minutes of true deep logical thinking and I made up my mind. But this came after other long deliberation before I received my LTCH. My dad carries a gun without a round chambered to all of my arguing and things I have given up. I was taught these things from him and I think he is the more set in his ways thinking this way his whole life, I really just don't know about it, it's not me... I hope this can provide some perspective when talking to students who may be apprehensive about carrying with a round in the chamber.

 

[Cameramonkey]

[video=youtube;bMbIC0RPBRs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMbIC0RPBRs[/video]

 

[mrortega]

I carry with one in the chamber for the same reason that I practice shooting one handed; what if I just have one hand available (2nd hand/arm injured, fending off a thug with one hand while drawing with the other or being gripped by the bad guy on one of my arms.)

 

[Yup!]

I carry on an unloaded chamber because for a long time I carried a 1911 chambered and ready to go. Then I noticed I didn't fit in to any of the conversations here on INGO. So I made some changes.

I switched to Glock
I carry unchambered
I only carry One mag
I OC

suddenly, I get a lot more attention here on INGO

 

[printcraft]

...........And as to the 1911, I used to be the same way. Just remember that the Glock is sitting in the same position as your 1911; you just cant SEE the "hammer". Once I realized that my 1911 cocked and locked was pretty much in the same condition as my Glock, I never looked back. ........

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You can lay both on a table that have been chambered and the cocked and locked 1911 looks "scarier" because you can see that hammer under tension.
There are multiple safeties built into the gun that you have to disengage before you can even pull the trigger.
I would say it is actually harder to accidentally fire than the Glock.

 

[Indynic]

I can't understand the fear of carrying a 1911 in condition 1. Seriously, if you can carry a striker fired pistol with no manual safety with a round chambered. I don't see why there would be a hang up with a 1911 carried in the same manner, but with a manual safety engaged.

i started carrying striker fired pistols with a round chambered first. When I began carrying hammer fired pistols with a manual safety, it has never even occurred to me to carry any other way than cocked and locked. Never even thought twice about it.

Please help me understand what the hang up is.

 

[FAL]

I've been reading this thread for a while and I can honestly say that I carried without one in the chamber for the first year that I carried. I simply felt uncomfortable with the possibility of pulling my firearm out of its holster and hitting the trigger, or having the trigger snag on something and go off.

One of the things that was always in the back of my mind, though, was a video I saw a few years ago of a man at a gas station in Ohio who was being pulled away by his left arm from his vehicle by someone attempting to rob/beat him and he was able to use his free arm to draw his weapon and fire it. He stated after the fact, that if he had not had one chambered, the results could have been very different. Instead, because he always had a round chambered he was able to fire with his free arm and that possibly saved his life. Something to think about since you just never know.

 

[looney2ns]

All sorts of security footage on youtube that shows the unchambered loosing the gunfight. They never get the round chambered before it's too late.
The ultimate safety is the one between your ears. Train it.

I've been reading this thread for a while and I can honestly say that I carried without one in the chamber for the first year that I carried. I simply felt uncomfortable with the possibility of pulling my firearm out of its holster and hitting the trigger, or having the trigger snag on something and go off.

One of the things that was always in the back of my mind, though, was a video I saw a few years ago of a man at a gas station in Ohio who was being pulled away by his left arm from his vehicle by someone attempting to rob/beat him and he was able to use his free arm to draw his weapon and fire it. He stated after the fact, that if he had not had one chambered, the results could have been very different. Instead, because he always had a round chambered he was able to fire with his free arm and that possibly saved his life. Something to think about since you just never know.

 

[dusty88]

Something that might be notable here is that with safety issues (generally, not just specific to firearms), it's often NOT the 'newbie' that has the incident, but the experienced. Statistically, it's the 'old-timer' (experience, not age) that's MORE likely to have an incident / accident.

Yup

In skydiving it's the guys with 100-300 jumps that have the "accidents": enough time in the sport to get confidence but not enough time and training to respond to the many unexpected things that happen.

The other "statistic" is the very experienced skydiver who pushes their limits on participating with more risky equipment or more dangerous situations (high winds, low turns, etc). Plenty of analogies to firearms, but perhaps the decision of whether or not to "participate" in the higher-risk activity. has to be made much more quickly with the firearm or isn't thought about well enough in advance.


As for carrying without a round in the chamber: I do so with a new holster or gun (but it would be my backup gun at that point). I also do so if I have to use a bag wherein I don't have a great trigger guard or the gun might move.

On a related note, though, my concern of negligent discharge is largely why I prefer the XDm and XDs. I expect that is similar to some people's concern for not having a round in the chamber. I am aware of the possibility of not being able to fire if I don't get a proper grip (experienced it once while practicing a fast draw with a glove on).

I move the gun out of the holster or move the entire gun/holster about 10 times per day. To be specific and perhaps TMI, I sit on the toilet almost once per hour. I also often have to enter a school building once or twice per day. I change clothing (and holsters) if I work out at lunch, or if I put on better clothes to meet someone after work. Sometimes during that "toilet" activity, I allow the gun to be pointing at the back of my knee. Yes, I know that's against fundamental rules but finding a good place to put the gun isn't always a safe option, and I do use a holster with great retention when I am doing that.

Many of these times, I'm also wearing 2 layers of clothing and I see opportunities there for snagging a trigger.

If I get to the point where I have the right combination of gun/holsters/training/experience to feel the negligent discharge possibility is nearly eliminated AND that I am more likely to be in a situation where I might need my gun with a weak grip (ie both hands injured), maybe I'll change my mind about the grip safety. For now, my plan is to train more with it and start learning to use it with my weak hand.

I do, BTW, carry an LCP and that's going to take one heck of a snag to pull the trigger. It's also simply easier to manipulate/leave in belly band/avoid problems because of its small size and weight.

I am looking for something to open-carry on our home property: something with a longer barrel, perhaps. I'm not as concerned about the grip safety in that gun because I won't be tucking clothing in around it, I won't need to hide it from anyone while I am using the toilet, etc. I'll also be choosing a holster with retention that allows me to climb fences, fall on the ground,etc without losing the gun so I see that carry situation as different.


ETA: the reason I prefer a grip safety over a thumb safety is because the grip safety requires CONSISTENCY which I should be training for anyway. The thumb safety requires a specific action at a specific time. From my experience in hunting, skydiving, and other similar activities, I don't want one more thing to "check" during an emergency. If I had a thumb safety, I'm 99% sure I would be repeatedly checking to see if it was in "ready" position while I should be focused on other things.

 

[mrortega]

I think what Indy_Guy is getting at is you cant always count on having both hands free to manipulate your firearm...i.e. if you are fending off an attacker with your left hand/arm.


OP...^^this is what made me start carrying with a chambered round.

When i first started carrying (Glock 22) i never carried with one chambered. I had been raised shooting longguns and was always taught to engage the safety until i was firing and didn't have a lot of experiences with handguns. I was fairly new to carrying and the thought of not having a safety made me uncomfortable and worried about ND...both from error on my part or weapon malfunction (bump, drop, etc.).

I would remove the gun from the holster every night and put it in the nightstand...morning came, holster went on (quality holster, CompTac MTAC) and gun was inserted. I was convinced (like many) that i would be able to chamber a round when necessary, i mean it only takes a fraction of a second right?

The more time i spent on INGO and other sites, the more knowledgeable i became about both the likelihood of me being able to chambering a round in a self-defense situation (not very likely at all) as well as the mechanics of the gun i was carrying (internal safeties of the Glock). I read stories of actual self defense scenarios (as opposed to hollywood ones) and listened to the advice of other INGOers. I realized one day that all i had on my hip was a short, funny shaped club at best.

I became comfortable with the fact that my firearm would not go off without something on the trigger...but i still saw reholstering as a potential for disaster (clothing catching, etc). So i changed the steps i took in the morning/at night. The gun does not leave the holster (unless if shooting or cleaning)...the holster comes off and goes on with the gun in it.

Been carrying chambered ever since.

Same here. If I take my weapon out of the carry holster it immediately goes into another one. I just don't want to even carry an unholstered gun around the house. And if I have to unload it, like putting reloads or cheap ball into it at the range, I'll bury the bullet that was in the chamber down in the magazine when I reload. Some feel that continually rechambering the same round could cause it to set back. I don't know if that's true or not but I rotate anyway.

 

[mrortega]

JFC in a quality holster and you have nothing to worry about. The Glock trigger group and firing mechanism is safe as demonstrated for decades by millions. They dont go boom on their own, even when dropped.

And as to the 1911, I used to be the same way. Just remember that the Glock is sitting in the same position as your 1911; you just cant SEE the "hammer". Once I realized that my 1911 cocked and locked was pretty much in the same condition as my Glock, I never looked back.

As Long as either my Glock or 1911 is secured in a holster I (we) have nothing to fear.

Plus 1 on the Glock. Maybe a lot of people don't understand the firing pin block safety on Glocks. Until you pull the trigger the first small distance and you feel resistance the firing pin is physically blocked and can't move. You can slam the gun to the ground butt first, beat somebody with it (I have a list of names if you're interested!) or drive nails into a fence post ala a working cowboy in the flicks, and you're good. The trigger connector has a protrusion that lays against the firing pin safety block button that you can see if you drop the mag and look up the well. With the pistol empty (check twice) start pulling the trigger back. You'll see the protrusion push the pin in a short distance. The safety is now off and a little more, harder pull will let loose the striker. On a side note, when cleaning your gun ALWAYS make sure the safety block button moves in and out freely against its spring. If it doesn't you may not have a safety. Disassemble the entire slide group and thoroughly clean it.