Go It Alone Scotland!

[rambone]

NO ONE here doubts their inherent right to choose to secede.

Several U.S. civil war threads suggest otherwise.

 

[poptab]

Several U.S. civil war threads suggest otherwise.

Scots have the right but Americans don't Rambone. You still don't get it. For us to have a right it must be explicitly stated in the constitution. That's the law. The law is the law and I'm just doin my job. Dontcha know?

 

[Henry]

Right now lots of money flows from Scotland to the south, when it could better serve the interests of the Scottish people.

Right now lots of money flows from fly over country to the coasts when it could better serve the interests of the flyover people.

 

[HoughMade]

1776 vs 2014 is pertinent when the American Revolution is compared to the current Scottish independence question. The British government is vastly different now vs. then and the rights of Scottish citizens in the UK today are vastly different from the rights of citizens of the colonies in 1776.

Again, no dog in this hunt. I do not doubt that Scotland has the legal right to vote for independence. That does not mean every political subdivision everywhere has an inherent right. Indiana was never a sovereign country....most states were not. Those that may have been, all willingly signed onto a Constitution without a secession clause. Apparently Scotland did not.

 

[mrjarrell]

Reason takes a good look at the issue, too.

The Implications of Scottish Independence - Hit & Run : Reason.com

 

[Henry]

The 10th is the secession clause of the Constitution of the united States.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Are you saying the Scots aren't capable of self rule, and can't survive without the English?

Please forgive me if I'm repeating what some others have said; computer is REALLY slow and I haven't read the entire thread. However: One big difference between the current situation in Scotland and the situation that obtained in The Colonies in 1776 is that the Colonials had a tremendous frontier in which to expand and to bleed off the hardy pioneers (read "malcontent individualists") that any expanding society needs; the Scots don't have that.

While they have had limited self-rule for awhile, it's largely been a socialistic rule (of 50+ Scots members of the UK Parliament only 1 is a Tory, the rest are socialists) and I have been told they receive a larger share of [STRIKE]moneys[/STRIKE] monies allocated for "the dole" than other UK citizens. NOT a good model for survival as a European nation - as others who've been trying it for the last 30 years or so are discovering.

And the point is probably moot anyway, for this go-round at least. According to Drudge, exit polls indicate the vote for secession is "No."

 

[HoughMade]

Reason takes a good look at the issue, too.

The Implications of Scottish Independence - Hit & Run : Reason.com

Yes, good article.

 

[mrjarrell]

Please forgive me if I'm repeating what some others have said; computer is REALLY slow and I haven't read the entire thread. However: One big difference between the current situation in Scotland and the situation that obtained in The Colonies in 1776 is that the Colonials had a tremendous frontier in which to expand and to bleed off the hardy pioneers (read "malcontent individualists") that any expanding society needs; the Scots don't have that.

While they have had limited self-rule for awhile, it's largely been a socialistic rule (of 50+ Scots members of the UK Parliament only 1 is a Tory, the rest are socialists) and I have been told they receive a larger share of [STRIKE]moneys[/STRIKE] monies allocated for "the dole" than other UK citizens. NOT a good model for survival as a European nation - as others who've been trying it for the last 30 years or so are discovering.

And the point is probably moot anyway, for this go-round at least. According to Drudge, exit polls indicate the vote for secession is "No."

This is the problem with relying on Drudge. He doesn't know what he's talking about half the time. There are NO exit polls in Scotland. Just another thing Drudge has made up. Or you misread.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/18/scottish-vote-no-exit-poll-democratic-deficit

 

[jbombelli]

16k to 19k for No in Clackmannanshire I just heard.

 

[Henry]

Is the UK a ?Nation by Consent?? - Murray N. Rothbard - Mises Daily

The same could be asked of the united States I suppose.

 

[mrjarrell]

John Oliver takes a comedic look at it, (he's a Brit).

[video=youtube_share;-YkLPxQp_y0]http://youtu.be/-YkLPxQp_y0[/video]

 

[jbombelli]

Orkney was solidly no, but that was expected.

 

[jbombelli]

Shetland voted no.

 

[jbombelli]

Eilean Siar voted no. So far tbe vote count totals are

No: 49535
Yes: 36097

 

[Arthur Dent]

So they should vote based on no information as to the outcome? Great plan.

At least they aren't going to war over it. We did. We separated from the British empire and things are more or less working out okay. What makes you unsure about the Scots?

 

[Arthur Dent]

Personally, I don't care about the outcome. Yes, they have the right- that's why the vote is taking place. It just seems like there is kneejerk HERE- "always break up every time no matter what". Well, why? Shouldn't there be a good reason to change the status quo?

As for "apples and oranges"- 1776 is not 2014 in any way, shape or form.

This isn't a new movement for Scotland. It's been gaining momentum for some time. Freedom for self rule isn't a good reason?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

At least they aren't going to war over it. We did. We separated from the British empire and things are more or less working out okay. What makes you unsure about the Scots?

There was no political mechanism for the Americans to vote, the English allowed a mechanism for the Scots to vote.

The Scots are even more socialist than Westminster.

 

[jbombelli]

There was no political mechanism for the Americans to vote, the English allowed a mechanism for the Scots to vote.

The Scots are even more socialist than Westminster.

Does that mean they shouldn't be allowed to forge their own destiny, and suffer the consequences of their vote should it be a yes?

Note... i think it will be a no vote overall, but that's not what I'm asking.

 

[Arthur Dent]

There was no political mechanism for the Americans to vote, the English allowed a mechanism for the Scots to vote.

The Scots are even more socialist than Westminster.

The American version of socialist or the socialist version of socialist? They don't have the right to choose how they wish to run their country? Maybe we should bomb them into capitalism.