How $31 of pot gave mom a 10-year-prison sentence

[dross]

NOW you're catching on.
If you can maintain that train of thought for more than a few minutes you have a chance of actually changing something instead of whining about the Government enacting laws without your personal approval.
It's called "The Democratic Process", and it actually works, if people get off their soap boxes long enough to participate in the Process.

But we're not a democracy, we're a Republic. Not everything is supposed to be up for a vote. Rights are not subject to the democratic process.

The problem starts with legislators who don't respect rights.

Then courts who don't respect rights.

Finally, enforcers who don't respect rights.

Please answer this question:

If it took a Constitutional Amendment to outlaw liquor, how can marijuana be outlawed by a majority vote of Congress?

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

If it took a Constitutional Amendment to outlaw liquor, how can marijuana be outlawed by a majority vote of Congress?

Wait... You are making the assumption that legislators follow the rules as they were written.

Haha, sucker!

It is funny how everything is "It is the law! We follow the law of the land" if someone agrees with the law...

But they are perfectly happy overlooking other laws....

 

[level.eleven]

NOW you're catching on.
If you can maintain that train of thought for more than a few minutes you have a chance of actually changing something instead of whining about the Government enacting laws without your personal approval.
It's called "The Democratic Process", and it actually works, if people get off their soap boxes long enough to participate in the Process.

Nah, I've simply matured my train of thought and come to grips with the reality that powerful federal beuracricies can't be changed at the ballot box. A vote is worth nothing when compared to the power and influence granted to these bureaucrats by waging "wars" against nouns. Federal programs simply do not get dismantled, Mike. Time to grow up. The concept of "if only we had the right guys in office" has never come to fruition in my lifetime, regardless of how many letters we right or how many times we vote in questionable elections.

That leaves education, which you call *****ing on the internet, or non-compliance.

 

[Fletch]

The concept of "if only we had the right guys in office" has never come to fruition in my lifetime, regardless of how many letters we right or how many times we vote in questionable elections.

Vote Republican. I'm told that'll fix it.

 

[UncleMike]

Nah, I've simply matured my train of thought and come to grips with the reality that powerful federal beuracricies can't be changed at the ballot box. A vote is worth nothing when compared to the power and influence granted to these bureaucrats by waging "wars" against nouns. Federal programs simply do not get dismantled, Mike. Time to grow up. The concept of "if only we had the right guys in office" has never come to fruition in my lifetime, regardless of many letters we right or how many times we vote in questionable elections.

Atta boy!!
That's the spirit!!
Give up.
It's a lot easier to sit back and ***** than to actually get involved and get your hands dirty.

 

[steveh_131]

Hmmm........

What part of OBEY THE LAW don't you understand??

You should ask these guys that question:

Boston Tea Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I heard they liked breaking laws every now and again.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Ahh but I am not wrong. I see it almost every week. No dope is any good...none.

You only get to see one side of it.

You don't see all the people who smoke a joint without getting arrested and, raise their kids and go to work and pay their taxes and all that great stuff.

And the DON'T shoot up heroin or smoke meth or snort up coke.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Hmmm........


What part of OBEY THE LAW don't you understand??

It's the "OBEY" part that throws me off. The word itself stinks of cowardice and servitude.

 

[dross]

Vote Republican. I'm told that'll fix it.

No but sitting around waiting for the World to change into something it's never been will.


Republican: Gosh, we have to build this shelter from wood, but all we have is a wrench. We need a hammer. Well, it won't work very well, but it's the reality, let's use this wrench as a hammer.

Anarchist/Libertarian: No way. I'm going to sit right here and wait for a hammer. If I can't build this with a hammer, I'm not going to build it at all.

 

[level.eleven]

Atta boy!!
That's the spirit!!
Give up.
It's a lot easier to sit back and ***** than to actually get involved and get your hands dirty.

You actually point out a common occurrence in democracies where the electorate has little to no faith in the system in which they are participating. Apathy sets in as the electorate sees little difference in the results of elections. The phrase - if voting actually did anything, it would be made illegal - had to start somewhere. While I am not apathetic, I am quite cynical with regards to federal elections. Main street feels a much stronger connection to their federal legislators than actually exists. Hell, our two senators don't even live in this state but yet they represent you and me? Give me a break.

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

If roughly half of our population votes, is it still a "democracy" ?

I think I would have characterized the republican more along the lines of:
Well, we need a hammer. Although a hammer could be bought for $10, if I give my friend's business $100, they can then sell us a hammer for $20! Everyone wins!

 

[level.eleven]

No but sitting around waiting for the World to change into something it's never been will.


Republican: Gosh, we have to build this shelter from wood, but all we have is a wrench. We need a hammer. Well, it won't work very well, but it's the reality, let's use this wrench as a hammer.

Anarchist/Libertarian: No way. I'm going to sit right here and wait for a hammer. If I can't build this with a hammer, I'm not going to build it at all.

At what point is it insanity, though? You know, doing the same thing, over and over, and expecting different results. I also don't want to confuse apathy with cynicism. I am active locally, but damn am I cynical with regards to making progress.

 

[E5RANGER375]

this is a republic. not a democracy. stop listening to the politicians who want you to believe that, but have no clue about our government other than its money in their pocket

 

[E5RANGER375]

the system is set up now so mostly only elitist and the rich can get elected to office. the voice of the people is non existent in government today. our problems WILL NOT be fixed at the ballot box now. i wish it was possible but its not. anyone who still thinks so is really in la la land. sure we will get feel good legislation to give us false hope and keep us at bay, but REAL change (downsizing & change back to the core principles) wil never happen until there is a total collapse. but dont worry, its coming soon. theres no way our economy will last even 10 more years like this. hope and change is coming for people like me who will be ready. for all the ones who are satisfied with the way it is now and telling people to "move if you dont like it", those people will be the ones that probly starve to death or get shot by the same government they support now. people like getting free stuff. the problem is, there REALLY is no such thing as a free lunch. someone else is paying for others free rides and when those people paying have no money to buy their own food then they are gonna stop paying for yours. when that happens, its gonna get bad! and this is gonna happen.

 

[Fletch]

No but sitting around waiting for the World to change into something it's never been will.


Republican: Gosh, we have to build this shelter from wood, but all we have is a wrench. We need a hammer. Well, it won't work very well, but it's the reality, let's use this wrench as a hammer.

Anarchist/Libertarian: No way. I'm going to sit right here and wait for a hammer. If I can't build this with a hammer, I'm not going to build it at all.

I don't completely disagree with the analogy, but I think to be honest and accurate you have to admit that at least half the time, the wrench is instead a piece of cheese.

And not even good cheese. Pasteurized, processed, imitation near-cheese equivalent.

 

[451_Detonics]

I am not going to go through all the posts to count how many said the laws need changed but I am will to bet it is over 50%. Of those who have said the laws need changed I bet it is not the first time you have made that comment about a law you felt needed changed.

What have you done to get a law changed?

Some years ago the State government was looking to allow some ranges to be shut down. I spent the better part of two weeks researching and testifying at the State house and the result was both preemption and the range protection bill being passed. I spent the month prior making phones calls, getting petitions signed, talking to Representatives or their Aids as well as talking to regular folks. It takes work to change a law. Just filling out a form letter online doesn't do it, you have to make the commitment to invest serious time in the effort.

As the man said..."If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem".

 

[lashicoN]

Mary Jane is currently against the law so unless you can afford to be that case that changes the laws I would probably not break said laws.

Those of you who disagree, turn in your LTCH and then go open carry everywhere you go, afterall the LTCH is a direct violation of our freedoms too right??

I open carry all the time without having my license on me. I do that the same place I exercise most of my other freedoms, at home. I have the right to carry whatever I want and I have the right to smoke whatever I want. I only conform to the laws of our government in public because I don't want to get in a shootout with shielded thugs. I won't be so accommodating on my own property.

Show me in the Constitution where it gives the people the right to smoke marijuana and that the right shall not be infringed. Don't try calling me out on bull**** when you have never met me.

Show me where in the Constitution it says that our government has the authority to ban plants.

Unless the law is cruel or unusual on its face, people cannot be free to pick and choose what laws they will obey and which ones that they will ignore. If such were the case, what is the point of a government or organized society?

The law is cruel and unusual on it's face though. How many plants has our government banned? Not many, so it's unusual. It's also cruel to imprison anyone for 10 years for selling a plant.

First it is marijuana. After a few years then its cocaine, then LSD or meth. Any substance abuse can be a gateway drug to all the others. I have seen it time and time again. I deal with them on a weekly basis.

There is a great quote from a documentary I watched a while back about "gateway" drugs and how crazy people sound making the argument that marijuana leads to harder drugs.

"I drink alcohol, but I was raised on breast milk, therefore it could be said that breast milk is a gateway to alcohol." Sounds pretty foolish to me.

Yep some people don't progress to the heavier stuff but I think way to many do. Some go from successful careers,marriages and nice homes to nothing in a few short years. I just always hate seeing it in a very bad way.

That's funny, because I only know one single person who started on weed and went on to something else, and this drive is no way connected to the use of marijuana. Do you really believe that somehow weed gets you addicted to crack? Is it magic or satanic? I don't really understand the science behind your theory.

I fail to see the issue with undercover officers...unless, of course, you're dealing drugs yourself.

...also, saying that it's just a plant is like saying meth is just household chemicals.

I'm not a pot dealer. I don't think it's a valuable use for police to pretend to want drugs, prostitutes, or pretend to be teenagers in a chat room just to go catch someone who might have broken a law. I'd rather officers just walk around and keep the peace, not create the broken society that we have today because mom is in jail for selling 30 bucks of flowers to a police officer who, for some reason, is allowed to purchase it as long as an arrest follows up a week later.

I have to agree with this, even if a law is stupid you have to follow it or risk the consequences. Yes, I think the sentence was harsh but at the same time I am sure her lawyer explained to her the possible outcome of a guilty verdict.

If you want the law changed then work to get it changed. I know way too many people who complain about laws that have no idea what the inside of the 200 West Washington looks like. If you aren't willing to work for changes you have no right to ***** about them.

I do have a right to ***** about them because I pay taxes and I'm an American citizen. What would you do if our government banned firearms and shortly rounded up everyone who broke that law and tossed them in jail for 10 years for possession of a deadly weapon? Would you follow that law? Would you help the government out and turn in your fellow Americans? Bad, ignorant laws should be broken.

You should ask these guys that question:

Boston Tea Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I heard they liked breaking laws every now and again.

No kidding. A few officers here would have arrested them on the spot. I guess we all at least learned that tid bit. I feel ashamed to call these members Americans. If they had their way, we wouldn't have any freedom in the country. Hell, if they had their way, we would still be a colony, because "you must OBEY EVERY LAW AT ALL TIMES OF FACE THE GOVERNMENT DEATH SQUADS!"

I have two questions. One member said that marijuana isn't just a plant. So I'd like to know more about that. What is it then?

Also, Dr. Mike, I'm still waiting for your report on how marijuana use fries brain cells.

 

[dross]

At what point is it insanity, though? You know, doing the same thing, over and over, and expecting different results. I also don't want to confuse apathy with cynicism. I am active locally, but damn am I cynical with regards to making progress.

Depends on how you define progress.

Look, the politicians are not the problems. They're just whores. They'll do whatever the voters want them to, they really will. The reason we have the problems we have is not that the politicans won't do what we want them to, it's that "we" are really "we" and there's a much bigger "WE" out there who doesn't agree with us. Heck, "we" don't even agree with each other all that much.

Most of the folks who post in this forum are much, much more libertarian than most people are, and that I think most people will EVER be. The reason the Republicans and the Democrats look so much alike to you all is that they are fighting for the large group of voters in the middle. Some are center right, some are center left, but most are right there near the middle.

Because the great majority of the voters are in the middle, the two major parties are going to control, and govern basically from there.

Republican position: Some social security contributions should be allowed to be invested in the private sector. Some reforms should be enacted over a long period allowing the program to continue.

Democrat position: Social security should be totally government run, and should be made solvent by raising taxes on the rich, and by taking away benefits from the rich.

Libertarian position: The government has no business taking money from me to put into someone else's retirement. Social Security should be ended or phased out.

Now, I agree with the third solution, but I'm in a very small minority. What should I do? I can vote Libertarian, but they can't win, never have, never will. In order for that to happen, you're going to have to convince all the people who stand to gain from the programs you want to cut.

So again, what should I do? I only have one choice. I can't have what I want, it's just not an available option. Now, compared to what I believe, the Republicans suck on guns, the economy, defense, and they suck bad on social issues. Now, the Dems suck really, really bad on all those issues, though for the social issues they just suck in a different way.

All I can do is vote what hurts me the least. The Republicans won't take the 2nd Amendment literally like I think they should, but neither will they pass another AWB. Republicans have been mainly responsible for CCW going from one state twenty years ago, to most states now.

I'll pay less taxes under Republicans. Our national defense is better, IMO, under Republicans than Democrats. And I'd rather have the R's try to pass bedroom laws and fail than have the Dems succeed at making me subsidize other people's bedrooms.

It may be insanity to think you'll get a different outcome, but that's not what I think. I think it's a kind of insanity as well to think you can achieve an outcome which history has shown to be impossible, and flies in the face of human nature as we know it.

 

[dross]

I don't completely disagree with the analogy, but I think to be honest and accurate you have to admit that at least half the time, the wrench is instead a piece of cheese.

And not even good cheese. Pasteurized, processed, imitation near-cheese equivalent.

Perhaps. But cheese is better than the excrement the dems would have me use, and to top it off, they'd want me to build it for others using the poop, then tax me for the poop, all the while railing against me for not doing my fair share.

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

I am not going to go through all the posts to count how many said the laws need changed but I am will to bet it is over 50%. Of those who have said the laws need changed I bet it is not the first time you have made that comment about a law you felt needed changed.

What have you done to get a law changed?

Some years ago the State government was looking to allow some ranges to be shut down. I spent the better part of two weeks researching and testifying at the State house and the result was both preemption and the range protection bill being passed. I spent the month prior making phones calls, getting petitions signed, talking to Representatives or their Aids as well as talking to regular folks. It takes work to change a law. Just filling out a form letter online doesn't do it, you have to make the commitment to invest serious time in the effort.

As the man said..."If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem".

Letters... calls to senators... votes for politicians that share my views...

Our current POTUS is against the DEA enforcing laws in states that have decriminalized marijuana with set guidelines. Although he has issued directives, they are not followed.

In the end, not everyone that shares a view will be an activist... but that is the original intent of a representative democracy... The idea was that if many people share a view, the elected officials will institute change.

In our current system, it does not work in that fashion.

Vote for D, we are better than R!

No, vote for R, look how angry the D's make you!

Believing that you must vote for the lesser of two evils, negates the idea of a better candidate being a valid option.