IMPD getting bean-bag shotgun rounds in 2017

[ghitch75]

i guess he had a gun?......if he did he play a stupid game and won the prize....

 

[phylodog]

He had a knife

 

[halfmileharry]

Was this another case of "Better living through chemistry"????

 

[ghitch75]

he did get tazed to and that didn't stop him........think the bean bags would have took him down?

 

[T.Lex]

he did get tazed to and that didn't stop him........think the bean bags would have took him down?

I think the counterpoint is that it would've been a good option to try. There was no middle step between tazing and real-shooting him. Bean bags may or may not have worked, but it would've been worth a try.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I can see frank kicked back in his 2 bore bean bag projectile/chair, polishing the blood and slobber off his boots right there at the scene.

I can see myself doing that as well.

 

[ghitch75]

I think the counterpoint is that it would've been a good option to try. There was no middle step between tazing and real-shooting him. Bean bags may or may not have worked, but it would've been worth a try.

roger that......i never did understand why bone heads with a knife think they can win when the cops have guns.........when they are that ****ed up i guess they don't think of that...

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Yes, but there is a difference: For now he has to kick his boots up on the hood of his MRAP. Thanks to you, he will soon be able to do it from a comfy seat.

What is this "MRAP" you speak of? I work for IMPD, not Tippecanoe or Morgan County.

 

[printcraft]

I think the counterpoint is that it would've been a good option to try. There was no middle step between tazing and real-shooting him. Bean bags may or may not have worked, but it would've been worth a try.

I can't remember where and I can't find it from a short search:
There was a video of a prisoner on top of a wall in the prison courtyard after a riot or something and the
guards shot the guy like 10 times and he was basically shrugging off the shots. Anecdotal. YMMV.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I can't remember where and I can't find it from a short search:
There was a video of a prisoner on top of a wall in the prison courtyard after a riot or something and the
guards shot the guy like 10 times and he was basically shrugging off the shots. Anecdotal. YMMV.

Its an option, not an end all/cure all. There are people immune toCS/OC and Tasers as well.

 

[T.Lex]

I can't remember where and I can't find it from a short search:
There was a video of a prisoner on top of a wall in the prison courtyard after a riot or something and the
guards shot the guy like 10 times and he was basically shrugging off the shots. Anecdotal. YMMV.

Absolutely. I don't think anyone expects this kind of thing to be a panacea. But, you know the old saw, "If it saves only one life...."

Which is also my point about diminishing returns. At some point - and I'm not saying these shotguns are there - additional tools for rare situations may not make a lot of sense.

 

[phylodog]

Was this another case of "Better living through chemistry"????

No, this guy had significant mental issues. No one wants to be forced into shooting someone like that, it sucks for everyone involved.

 

[phylodog]

Absolutely. I don't think anyone expects this kind of thing to be a panacea. But, you know the old saw, "If it saves only one life...."

Which is also my point about diminishing returns. At some point - and I'm not saying these shotguns are there - additional tools for rare situations may not make a lot of sense.

In online comments after the shooting I posted there were several people asking why the officers didn't shoot him with a net gun then tackle him. That would seem to fit into the category you're mentioning. The nice things about the bags is that they utilize equipment which officers have been using for decades. (I know you weren't arguing against them)

 

[T.Lex]

In online comments after the shooting I posted there were several people asking why the officers didn't shoot him with a net gun then tackle him. That would seem to fit into the category you're mentioning. The nice things about the bags is that they utilize equipment which officers have been using for decades. (I know you weren't arguing against them)

Yeah, the non-lethal tech is super-interesting, but the bleeding edge (<--- maybe not the best expression) stuff is expensive and untried. Focused sound energy, microwaves, sticky stuff, etc., all might be great solutions but impractical and overlap with existing tech.

Plus, from a former litigator's perspective, the more options an officer has, the opportunities to use the choose the wrong one (in hindsight, when described by a plaintiff's lawyer, in front of a jury).

And just to emphasize, we are far more in agreement on the bean bag thing than otherwise. You'll totally back the 2 bore idea, right?

 

[halfmileharry]

No, this guy had significant mental issues. No one wants to be forced into shooting someone like that, it sucks for everyone involved.

Damn, that sucks for all parties affected by this situation.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

In online comments after the shooting I posted there were several people asking why the officers didn't shoot him with a net gun then tackle him.

I'll answer that, because no one at IMPD has seen Fifth Element.

In some instances, bean bags are the optimal solution. Bag may break a rib, but better that into an EDP than a load of #00 into the thorax.

 

[Woobie]

What is this "MRAP" you speak of? I work for IMPD, not Tippecanoe or Morgan County.

I guess I just assumed with all those 5 figure biweekly paychecks you would have bought your own by now.

 

[ol' poke]

If I understand this 'option', it consists of a regular SG with an orange stock/forearm w/"Less Lethal" printed on the side? So what happens when #00 is inadvertently loaded into this 'option'? Or when BB's are inadvertently loaded into a duty SG? I don't care much for either possibility.

 

[bb37]

Bag may break a rib, but better that into an EDP than a load of #00 into the thorax.

Reportedly, there are isolated cases where bean bags have broken sternums or ribs and caused lethal damage to internal organs.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/206089.pdf

Also, bean bags are reportedly not "accurate" beyond 20 feet and their effective range is about 70 feet. Does an officer want to get within 20 feet of a knife-wielding suspect with apparent mental or chemical imbalances just so he can make sure his bean-bag shot is on target?

While I understand the desire for non-lethal options, this sounds like just one more "damned if you do, damned if you don't" decision that LEOs are going to have to make in a split second.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I guess I just assumed with all those 5 figure biweekly paychecks you would have bought your own by now.

If I made that kind of cash I'd buy you an MRAP too.