Lets point guns at each other!

[Thor]

See, the problem is you are trying to apply logic here. That simply won't work in our system today...

To my great misfortune I work in this world. The fight to deliver actual capabilities to the warfighter is frustrating. If it doesn't have a company/lobbyist/constituency behind it it is really hard to 'sell' because no one is selling it but the people who want to use it.

Can't say I've won all the fights that's for sure.

 

[orangeITguy]

There is no way in hell I would be apart of this exercise. Like everyone else said someone is going to slip up and get shot.

 

[Thor]

Thanks for getting the thread back on track!

 

[throttletony]

That is an lethal accident waiting to happen. There have been quite a few cases where this was done in Law Enforcement training and an officer ended up shot. Dummy guns are made for that purpose. Never use a live gun. No matter what any "Instructor" tells you. Whoever thought that this was good training is an idiot and if he continues to train this way someone IS going to get shot. Unbelievable.

Seems to me there are several other less potentially dangerous ways to accomplish the same goal.

Putting your sights on a real person and pulling the trigger is an important mindset drill.

But that is NOT how it should be done.

Ditto to all the above -
I see the value in getting past the mental blockade of never pointing a gun at someone as a training exercise (especially since most of us are responsible gun owners, and never violate that rule)
but this is not the way to do it.

 

[Randy Harris]

Of course the latest SWAT magazine has an article about TDI's Armed Teacher class where they have them unload their guns and point them at each other....

 

[printcraft]

All this grief could have been avoided if they just pointed their guns at the camera man instead.
You can actually get better training that way because you can live fire in his general direction as well.
That is the proper way to do it.
Completely safe and recommended.

 

[Thor]

All this grief could have been avoided if they just pointed their guns at the camera man instead.
You can actually get better training that way because you can live fire in his general direction as well.
That is the proper way to do it.
Completely safe and recommended.

Doesn't matter who shoots first, we all know who wins.

 

[FireBirdDS]

(Holding ears, awaiting the inevitable...)

 

[Bluejeeper]

(Holding ears, awaiting the inevitable...)

Finger on trigger. Gun pointed into ear. Lets see how loud this baby really is!

 

[JetGirl]

Finger on trigger. Gun pointed into ear.

You forgot "sympathetic fire".

 

[Bluejeeper]

You forgot "sympathetic fire".

That's actually what I was trying to imply. Badly.

 

[JetGirl]

Oh...my bad.

 

[Bluejeeper]

Oh...my bad.

Eh. I'd say that one's my bad. I'm not always very good at getting my point across over the internet.

 

[cedartop]

Of course the latest SWAT magazine has an article about TDI's Armed Teacher class where they have them unload their guns and point them at each other....

Just read the magazine. It looks like you were talking about this;

"The students trooped back into the classroom and lined the walls. Benner wanted the students to get comfortable with pointing the guns at other people. Benner had them do just that. Pick someone and shoot them."

SWAT Magazine Nov. 2014

It should be pointed out, this was after students "roped" their guns. Unloading them and putting bright yellow tubing down the barrel and mag well.

 

[rhino]

Yeah, I'll pass.

 

[Randy Harris]

Yeah Mike, that is what I was referring to.....

 

[Coach]

There seems to be this thing out there in part of the training world that pointing a gun at another human being is something that requires working up to or getting comfortable with. Is this just another high speed low drag cool thing for trainers to have their students do so their training can be special or cool? If someone has serious hang ups with pointing a gun at someone who deserves it why are they carrying a gun? Is it not counter productive to point guns at people in class who don't deserve it? Does pointing a gun at people make it easier to shoot bad guys when the time comes?

 

[JetGirl]

Does pointing a gun at people make it easier to shoot bad guys when the time comes?

If anybody really thinks part ^...oy vey.

 

[cedartop]

There seems to be this thing out there in part of the training world that pointing a gun at another human being is something that requires working up to or getting comfortable with. Is this just another high speed low drag cool thing for trainers to have their students do so their training can be special or cool? If someone has serious hang ups with pointing a gun at someone who deserves it why are they carrying a gun? Is it not counter productive to point guns at people in class who don't deserve it? Does pointing a gun at people make it easier to shoot bad guys when the time comes?

It really depends who you are talking to Coach. Some very much believe this to be the case. Grossman's whole one book is about this type of thing. I happen to believe that humans are completely capable of doing violence to one another without help. In good people however a lot of that has been conditioned out, hence the concern that many won't be able to pull the trigger if the need should arise. It definitely happens. Does pointing guns at other people during FOF help with this? I don't know. If you believe the video game blamers, I would say yes.

 

[JetGirl]

In good people however a lot of that has been conditioned out, hence the concern that many won't be able to pull the trigger if the need should arise.

Show me a "good person" extremely passive mom with access to a weapon when someone grabs her little baby with intent to injure/harm...
I can dispel that line of thinking in a lightning fast flash of time.