Obama admin: Standards dropped, women to Ranger school

[jeremy]

Why not make them earn the blue cord and an EIB first? Why do they get to just jump right in to get a tab?

Why?!

Almost any MOS can attend the course...
And has been that way for at least 20 years...

 

[jeremy]

Side note there have been females that have attended and met course standards off and on going back about 20 years...

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Why not make them earn the blue cord and an EIB first? Why do they get to just jump right in to get a tab?

Do Ranger cooks or Ranger truck drivers have to earn the blue cord first?

I'm totally against putting women into any forward position where they may see combat. Men should fight wars, not women.

Having said that, Women Marines can beat up [STRIKE]fe[/STRIKE]male Rangers

 

[Pocketman]

I too agree with standards. Has anyone found anything to corroborate the article cited in the OP?

well looky there:

U.S. may send women to elite Ranger school: top Army chief | Reuters

all saying the same thing

Army Reviews Whether Women Can Go to Ranger School - ABC News

Army brass mulls sending women to Ranger school - Army News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Army Times

Army reviews whether women can go to Ranger school - KGWN

I don't find anything in the articles cited that even hints at lowered standards.

 

[iChokePeople]

I don't find anything in the articles cited that even hints at lowered standards.

If the standards are not lowered, there will be almost zero who will see anything past Harmony Church.

The standards will have to change pretty dramatically. It doesn't have to say it in the articles, it's very clear.

 

[jeremy]

If the standards are not lowered, there will be almost zero who will see anything past Harmony Church.

The standards will have to change pretty dramatically. It doesn't have to say it in the articles, it's very clear.

The standards have already DROPPED in the last 5 years significantly...

 

[iChokePeople]

The standards have already DROPPED in the last 5 years significantly...

No argument. And after the Florida issue in the 90s, and when Desert Phase was dropped, and... But I really can't speak to what's happened since the late 90s.

 

[jeremy]

No argument. And after the Florida issue in the 90s, and when Desert Phase was dropped, and... But I really can't speak to what's happened since the late 90s.

Personally, I cannot either. Just what I have observed on deployments and read in trade papers...

 

[HICKMAN]

I don't find anything in the articles cited that even hints at lowered standards.

you doubted the credibility of my first post.

Go back and read what Weaponman blogged.... it's not going to be discussed in public.

 

[HICKMAN]

Side note there have been females that have attended and met course standards off and on going back about 20 years...

That wouldn't surprise me, I know women have gone to SERE as well.

But we all know the type they are opening this up for.

 

[HICKMAN]

Why?!

Almost any MOS can attend the course...
And has been that way for at least 20 years...

didn't know that, been out since 96, figured it was an Combat Arms kinda thing.

Just started working in a military atmosphere again last year.

 

[Wine Country]

As long as the armed forces are paid for by the taxes of women, women deserve equitable treatment in all forces.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

As long as the armed forces are paid for by the taxes of women, women deserve equitable treatment in all forces.

Based upon what non-emotional legal principle?

 

[Expat]

As long as the armed forces are paid for by the taxes of women, women deserve equitable treatment in all forces.

Yeah, the military should be all about diversity and equality...

 

[IncendiaryGunner]

As long as the armed forces are paid for by the taxes of women, women deserve equitable treatment in all forces.

If we consider "equitable treatment" the same thing, I agree.

It would seem that most that oppose women in the rangers are fearful that permitting women in the program will lead to lowering the standards. While this would not have to be the case, a brief glance back into recent history seems to validate this view.

The vast majority of men in the US population would not make it through ranger school. It is unlikely that I would make the cut, and most would probably consider me a physically active male. The failure rate of women based on the current standards would be extremely high, and I do not say that to talk down to women - I know a few that are tough as nails and stronger than many men that I know, but biological differences do create a divide between the physical aptitudes of the sexes.

I am not sure how accurate this number is, but I have read that close to 50% of all male prospects do not make it through ranger school. If the failure rate for women is significantly higher, and the standards are modified to increase their success rate - then that can create real problems.

Those few rare women that can hack ranger school by current standards are not the issue - creating a double standard to pass individuals that cannot perform as well as others is a huge issue. Remember, everyone that earns their tab relies on the person at their side, and the standards exist for a reason.

 

[iChokePeople]

The only thing that will be achieved here is devaluing the Ranger tab. Do this -- just leave the standards for one of the most basic tasks of a Ranger intact: moving quickly over rough terrain with a 60-100(or more...) lb. ruck. Leave that one intact and see how many women make it. A few, yes, and they deserve to. If the Army genuinely would, could uphold the standard, I'd be for it. But they can't. Too many women will wash out, and all of the standards will have to be re-evaluated. Rucks will be weighed and standards will be devised based on the soldier's body weight, rather than "here's all the stuff a squad has to carry, carry it." Been there, done that, been forced to change ruck march standards to keep all of the women from failing, as just one example.

 

[IndyDave1776]

As long as the armed forces are paid for by the taxes of women, women deserve equitable treatment in all forces.

I will agree that if the course applies to something they will actually do rather than collecting chest and collar decorations for political reasons, and they can perform according to present standards and their failure is accepted just as readily as it is with the men who don't make it, fine. Otherwise, it is nothing but political BS that has no place in the military, which exists to get a job done, not to be a bastion of political correctness.

 

[ATOMonkey]

I'm more worried about standards for mental health.

There's plenty of time for PFT once you get in.

 

[Bert]

I watched my son graduate from rangers . Tough course . I wonder if they will go to pink berets ?

 

[iChokePeople]

Don't know if it's still done, but back in the day, some rangers sewed on their tab with white thread, sort of a badge of honor for attending ranger school in the winter, which was generally thought to be more difficult. Makes me wonder if the pre-PC rangers in a few years will do something similar to show that they attended the course before ruck marches were replaced by casual strolls and before patrol bases were set in areas with portajohns.