Planting trees

[BigMatt]

We just planted 8 fruit trees. Anything from peaches to apples to pears.

It will be a few years till they are ready to pick, but we can't wait.

 

[Rikkrack]

Ummm, what are 'support' trees and what is 'food forest'? Not trying to be a sa, just never heard these terms.

Here are some blog posts about permaculture, food forests, and support species.

Permaculture multiple diciplines all in one | Wolf-Beach Farms

Permaculture, What is it anyway? | Wolf-Beach Farms

There are a bunch of free videos at www.geofflawton.com

 

[Dorky_D]

Check out Survival Podcast
There is a lot of info on growing food and stuff there. It has opened my eyes quite a bit. Some of the stuff is hard to relate to suburb life, but then again we can start the process and fill in more stuff as we can. I am going to be planting some apple trees, black berries, hazel nuts and possibly more in addition to a garden this year. It is a start. I may plant some pear trees too, but I am not sure I will have the room.

 

[MT60]

Twenty-some years back we took a couple acres of the family farm that had been a combination of cattle pasture and rotational crops. Dad was a pretty conscientious land manager and was in pretty good shape from a fertility standpoint. There wasn't a tree on the place then, but now have plenty. We've had some luck with Arbor day trees, Dad planted an entire field behind my house with DNR trees some 10 years ago and those are looking great, we've bought some local nursery trees that are doing great.

BUT - Now I find myself in the position of taking the chainsaw to several trees I put in 'cause I thought they would "look good" to make room for some fruit bearing trees. I wish I had thought more carefully earlier because I could be enjoying apples, peaches and maybe some pears instead of working to get the ornamentals out and productive items in. My advice (worth every dime you're paying for it) to the IP who seems to have the same opportunity I had years ago: Contact the DNR, but first think about how these trees can help in long term preparedness and yearly fresh, healthy food enjoyment.

 

[Dorky_D]

Twenty-some years back we took a couple acres of the family farm that had been a combination of cattle pasture and rotational crops. Dad was a pretty conscientious land manager and was in pretty good shape from a fertility standpoint. There wasn't a tree on the place then, but now have plenty. We've had some luck with Arbor day trees, Dad planted an entire field behind my house with DNR trees some 10 years ago and those are looking great, we've bought some local nursery trees that are doing great.

BUT - Now I find myself in the position of taking the chainsaw to several trees I put in 'cause I thought they would "look good" to make room for some fruit bearing trees. I wish I had thought more carefully earlier because I could be enjoying apples, peaches and maybe some pears instead of working to get the ornamentals out and productive items in. My advice (worth every dime you're paying for it) to the IP who seems to have the same opportunity I had years ago: Contact the DNR, but first think about how these trees can help in long term preparedness and yearly fresh, healthy food enjoyment.

Firewood!

 

[Rikkrack]

Mushroom cultivation $20-$2,500/lb depending on variety and quality. Firewood, mulch, compost, fencing, building materials.

 

[Enkrypter]

My Wife and I purchased ~6ac of "farm land" over the winter. It is completely bare, We're going to build a home and garage/workshop later this year. I'll be converting the bare field to grass this spring, starting a garden finally, and want to get as many trees planted as possible.

So, when is the best time to plant containerized (retail) trees? Any difference for bare root? I've noticed all the home stores have gotten lots of trees in already, so I'd love to start buying and planting as soon as is safe.

Any tips for me? We're going from less than 1/4ac, to almost 6, so I'm beyond excited. While this place might not be my perfect prep/SHTF location, it will beat living in Indy. My dreams are bigger than my wallet, so I'm sure it will be a test of my patience.

With great land comes great responsibility....

...meaning you'll have a sh!tload of grass to mow. Mowing a lot of grass can get pricey, once you start looking at those dixie choppers. That much acreage would warrant a tractor and a half-bat in my opinion.

 

[Echelon]

With great land comes great responsibility....

...meaning you'll have a sh!tload of grass to mow. Mowing a lot of grass can get pricey, once you start looking at those dixie choppers. That much acreage would warrant a tractor and a half-bat in my opinion.

Yeah, I know, I probably should have gotten a zero-turn, but I basically stole a lawn tractor at the Sears Outlet a couple months ago. We will see how that goes.


On the tree front, I placed an order for probably 25 trees from Arbor Day right after my original post. I called them today because I had not heard anything on my order, and they said they had some bad weather at their tree farm in Nebraska, and haven't even began to harvest yet.

 

[Rikkrack]

get a couple 4 legged mowers. then you can eat them when done. Try eating the mower. Get rid of the lawns and plant something you can eat. The lawn was originated as a status symbol. Lawn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[wabash]

I would go with all fruit trees.

select a spot for a picnic table. surround it with various fruit trees. have spring picnics when all the trees are blooming around it.

also, plant some blackberry patches.

 

[Rikkrack]

There are a bunch of nut trees (pecan, walnut, almond, hickory etc.), then sugar maple (maple syrup), pawpaw (Kentucky banana), fruit trees, berry bushes (cherry, blue berry, goose berry), ground level (strawberries wintergreen), underground (ground nuts, sun chokes), climbers (hops, kiwi, grapes). Just an example. All that can be planted together in a food forest, edible landscape.


To type it all out I could be here a while. Here is an example from a property I did. It is 50 acres but closer to what some of you have than a suburban example. http://wolfbeachfarms.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/design-public.pdf

 

[Echelon]

I drew up a quick (terrible) ms paint sketch of how I'm thinking about laying out my initial order of trees. Since we haven't started building yet, I have to try and stay clear of the possible construction zone. I plan to try to make the empty spots go to work for me more once construction is over.

So, tell me how you'd lay it out differently. (The garage, home, septic, and pond are all proposed sites)
not to scale... Property is ~800'x300'
forgot to draw it, but a solar panel array will be either on or near the detached garage, so I need to keep the southern view open around that building.

 

[Rikkrack]

From a permaculture perspective it is all relative to where the elevations and water flows now on the property are. Where are the winds from the summer, from the winter? It also depends on what else is around you. Looks like open field. You may want to think about wind breaks for straight line winds, protection of plants, but also soil erosion. There are lots of fast growing species. Additionally if this was a field and construction is happening you may want to look at cover crops to keep erosion and soil loss to a minimum. You can also harness passive solar heating from the pond depending on where you place it and the home. The sun can reflect off the pond and heat the side of the home that is closest to it. Gardens should be closer to the house minimize walking to harvest. What about deer? In an open field like that it is a buffet for deer to come.

 

[Echelon]

Rikkrack, thanks for replying! As far as wind, it is very windy since my property is open on all 4 sides with a large field directly to the west across the street. That is why I plan to plant a strong row of pines and leaf trees up front (to the West). I'm trying to make this property work for me as much as possible, be a good prep, be sustainable, and maybe even a little "green". I think I will take your advice and move the garden closer to the home site. Going from 1/4ac to almost 6, I want to stretch it out and feel "big and open", but I realize a 200' walk to the garden would probably be a huge pain. Thanks for the help!

 

[Slawburger]

There are a bunch of nut trees (pecan, walnut, almond, hickory etc.), then sugar maple (maple syrup), pawpaw (Kentucky banana), fruit trees, berry bushes (cherry, blue berry, goose berry), ground level (strawberries wintergreen), underground (ground nuts, sun chokes), climbers (hops, kiwi, grapes). Just an example. All that can be planted together in a food forest, edible landscape.


To type it all out I could be here a while. Here is an example from a property I did. It is 50 acres but closer to what some of you have than a suburban example. http://wolfbeachfarms.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/design-public.pdf

That was an interesting example report. Thanks for posting it.

 

[teddy12b]

My wife and I recently went through the same thing back when we built back in '12. I've been looking for land ever since I was a little boy and always dreamed about a finding a heavily wooded lot. I always knew in the back of my mind that I'd have better odds of finding a chunk of a corn field in Indiana than I would a woods and that some day I'd have to "build" my woods.

We're just shy of 5 acres and it was a corn field before we took ownership of it. Besides the yard area around the house I let everything else become overrun with weeds back until the spring of '13. Once I knew the land thing was happening I dived deeply into what trees will grow in my zone. I looked for trees that produce "something". If the tree doesn't feed me, I want it to feed something cute and fuzzy that I can hunt that'll feed me. Before I knew it I was looking at what size of tree to buy and now their growth rates. It's all fine and dandy to get a ton of trees that are less than a foot high, but if they grow 1' - 2' a year you're going to be waiting a long time before you get something that's going to "build" a woods.

When selecting trees, first look at what zone you're in and if you're on the line lean towards the tougher climate to ensure a better survival rate. Next see how fast trees grow and how fast they produce something. As an example we all know everyone loves White Oaks and Red Oaks, but they aren't going to be dropping acorns anytime soon if you plant them now. Don't get me wrong definitely plant some white & red oaks but look into the Sawtooth oak as well. The Sawtooth oak grows from 3-5 feet a year and produces acorns as early as 5 years old. I bought a 75 of them on ebay for less than $3 a piece that were 4' - 5' high bare root. Besides the ones I wacked with a bush hog or lawn mower they all survived. At that size they're at least 2 years old maybe 3 years so within two years give or take I should start seeing some of the best trees starting to produce nutts with more following every year after that.

In terms of fruit trees, I can't say enough about how much I love watching the Dave Wilson Nursery you tube videos. This guy gives an incredible overview of spacing, pruning, planting, mulching and all kinds of other good information on how to get your backyard orchard going. I've watched this video at least 10 times. The series of videos now spans over a couple years so you can see the trees that get planted, see how much they grow in a year and how much he pruned them in the spring, summer, fall, winter, etc. It's an incredible resource of quality information.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZV2kr50K7Is

I'd also agree with what was mentioned about the survival podcast and his videos on permaculture. The whole time I was planning out my land I was really trying to get after the same goals as permaculture, but I just hadn't heard what it was called yet. Permaculture and food forests are just the tip of the iceberg and there's plenty more information out there.

 

[BigMatt]

Holy cow! That is 10lbs of doo doo in a 5lb sack! All of that on .55 acres is going to be very crowded.

I drew up a quick (terrible) ms paint sketch of how I'm thinking about laying out my initial order of trees. Since we haven't started building yet, I have to try and stay clear of the possible construction zone. I plan to try to make the empty spots go to work for me more once construction is over.

So, tell me how you'd lay it out differently. (The garage, home, septic, and pond are all proposed sites)
not to scale... Property is ~800'x300'
forgot to draw it, but a solar panel array will be either on or near the detached garage, so I need to keep the southern view open around that building.

 

[ViperJock]

The trees from the DNR are priced unbeatably. I'd consider using a lot of these if you are planting acres worth of trees. Consider buying a few larger trees from a good nursery to get some nice accents early. Trees you get at local hardware stores etc are mid range. The issue with them is that you get a much larger tree/$1 at a nursery but usually the roots are not as good. It's a trade off. Some of the trees will not survive, but at the DNR price it's not a tragedy. You can replace the ones that die with larger more expensive trees as needed next year.

Also so you can buy some dwarf hybrid fruit trees that have a shorter life span but bear fruit sooner. Put a few of those in and by the time they are on the way out, you regular trees are bearing.

Other things to to consider are what the tree will drop on your lawn. What size it will become it terms of "framing" your home artistically speaking and/or creating shade over areas that will need sunlight. How much water does it need? You don't want a tree that needs lots of water in place that you'd have to manually carry water to all the time. Check the life span and how low of temperature it can survive. Some trees attract certain ammals....

Good luck!

 

[teddy12b]

When you get into the prices of trees, it's all relative to how many trees you are going to buy and the total $$ you are willing to spend combined with your patience for letting things grow. I'd love to go to lowes and have bought the 6' high red oaks they've got in buckets with solid root balls and those would look so much better than what I actually planted, but for the amount of trees I was buying I couldn't drop $25 for a single tree, but I could do $50 and get 25 trees that were much smaller. If my land was bigger I'd probably be looking at the DNR websites and getting the 100 tree packs for less that $1 per tree. For me I just figured that I could either buy a bunch of smaller trees that I could afford now, and by the time I could afford the larger trees the little ones would have grown to comparable size. Just a few more thoughts to consider, but ultimately the land owner needs to get an accurate count of how many plants and at what costs they're going to end up at.

Back when I was looking at buying trees my OCD from years of engineering and accounting classes mixed with a lifetime in construction kicked in. I measured the area I was intending to plant trees in and then figured out the spacing for those trees. For me I keep a 10' gap between anything I plant and the neighbors property and when I figured the spacing of trees at 20' in rows with 20' between columns I was around 200 trees. Once I had my numbers it was easier to get an idea of how many trees I wanted and needed to buy. If I wanted 10' spacing between trees I was going to be doubling the amount of tree I'd have to buy, 15 foot spacing was another number. I ran calculations and drew it up several different ways on autocad before deciding that 20' spacing was going to be what I considered to be my best bet.

 

[Echelon]

Holy cow! That is 10lbs of doo doo in a 5lb sack! All of that on .55 acres is going to be very crowded.

I think maybe you forgot to carry a zero, or move a decimal The property is around 5.5ac