Republicans Begin To Defect

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  • jrogers

    Why not pass the time with a game of solitaire?
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    When did a movement based on smaller government and fewer taxes become associated with being all about social issues?

    We're talking about the TP here, not your presumably hypothetical movement. Please keep up!


    "Virulent extremism" is just vitriolic spin and you know it.

    Sure is. I feel said vitriol rising whenever I hear a self-proclaimed TP member express their reprehensible views on everything from fiscal policy to race relations. Between Bachman and Palin the TP deserves whatever spin I care to apply.


    This is how it will continue until the electorate wake up and withhold their consent from a party that no longer even tries to represent us or secure our Liberty.

    And how, exactly, do you propose this be accomplished?
     

    jbombelli

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    May 17, 2008
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    We're talking about the TP here, not your presumably hypothetical movement. Please keep up!




    Sure is. I feel said vitriol rising whenever I hear a self-proclaimed TP member express their reprehensible views on everything from fiscal policy to race relations. Between Bachman and Palin the TP deserves whatever spin I care to apply.




    ...


    That phrase, combined with your self-proclaimed location (Back and to the Left), leads me to conclude that you voted for Obama.
     

    Bummer

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    Not really. The LP isn't a contender outside of a few local elections. On a national level their only impact is to drain a few points from Republican candidates.

    I'm way past tired of hearing this pathetic excuse from Republicans. I quit voting for Democrats after the '76 election cycle. I quit voting Republican after the '78 election cycle. The Libertarians do not drain my vote from a Republican since I'd rather lick a toad than vote for any Republican. They showed me their true colors when they changed the rules mid-game to keep Ron Paul out. Never again. Period.
     

    Bummer

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    Nov 5, 2010
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    I love to read revisionist history posts about Ronald Reagan that were posted by what I suspect are kiddies too young to have any memories of that era.

    Don't even try it. He may be young, but he is right. Ronald Reagan was a New Deal Democrat who created the appearance of changing sides when he went on TV pretending to be a cowboy for GE. I am proud that I was not only eligible but refused to vote for someone who was nothing but "good hair". Reagan was the textbook CINO. This isn't "revisionist history", but the actual truth. Did he have one or two good ideas? Yes. Was he the mold from which many Republicans were formed? Certainly. Was he the Saint of Conservatism? Not even close.
     

    ATM

    will argue for sammiches.
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    Jul 29, 2008
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    ...And how, exactly, do you propose this be accomplished?

    Education.

    Reacquaint them with their American history and heritage, reminding them of the sacrifices made and of their obligation as citizens to actually govern themselves and secure some form of Liberty for their posterity.

    It doesn't hurt along the way to refute the commonly held and actively promoted notion that one's vote is merely (some would even suggest primarily) a means of selecting which of the dominant parties' "winner" will rule over us next term.

    I can't imagine any political solution so I don't really waste much of my personal time in that arena. The original American spirit must be rekindled lest this grand experiment fail.

    :patriot:
     

    hornadylnl

    Shooter
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    Nov 19, 2008
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    Education.

    Reacquaint them with their American history and heritage, reminding them of the sacrifices made and of their obligation as citizens to actually govern themselves and secure some form of Liberty for their posterity.

    It doesn't hurt along the way to refute the commonly held and actively promoted notion that one's vote is merely (some would even suggest primarily) a means of selecting which of the dominant parties' "winner" will rule over us next term.

    I can't imagine any political solution so I don't really waste much of my personal time in that arena. The original American spirit must be rekindled lest this grand experiment fail.

    :patriot:

    Right now, people of all political stripes are willing to sell their posterity into slavery so they can continue to get their social security check each month. They paid into so they deserve it and those who haven't even had the opportunity to vote for those who squandered our SS deserve to pay for it.

    People don't care about their posterity.
     

    88GT

    Grandmaster
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    Mar 29, 2010
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    Familyfriendlyville
    All of the existing Republican establishment needs to go, and the new breed Tea Party / Linertarians need full control of the party. The baby boomer generation of politicians need to retire politely or be kicked out of office rudely. They are the generation who put us where we are, and we OBVIOUSLY need some fresh ideas.
    Sounds good in principle, but this ignores a couple of other issues that have a bigger role in the outcome than most people consider. First, our election system is rigged to favor "major" parties. All primaries should be open to every candidate that obtains enough signatures to be placed on the ballot; party affiliation should be irrelevant. Second, the primary/general election scenario currently used, coupled with the major party/minor party distinction, needs revamped. Doing the first will go a long way, but there are still other changes that would help. Until those two things happen, we will always be a 2-party country. Which means that even if the Republicans are replaced by the LP, the LP will find itself in the same position of having to choose between sticking to principle or being relegated to inconsequential status. Under our current system, you can't beat the party of "Free ****" by promising to give less free **** (or in the case of the LP, take it all away). The LP will never have success because part of being a libertarian means not compromising. I sincerely doubt the LP will ever replace the GOP under the current election paradigm, but by chance it happened to, it wouldn't last 2 election cycles. On a national level. Local is a different story.

    No one really wants Ronnie back; they just want the deified version of him they've been worshipping for the past quarter century.
    I'd take Reagan back in a heartbeat over the last few options we've had on the GOP side.


    He [Daniels] rightly chose to not run in a race a republican wouldn't win.
    A Republican could have won. The one on the ballot was the issue. Not his party affiliation.


    I think that the debt will be what coalesces enough people to vote for a third party candidate.
    Nope, because the VAST majority of the American public is too ignorant to understand why that's a bad thing. Individually, we don't feel the consequences of the debt. Not like personal debt. National debt consequences manifest themselves in ways different than personal debt consequences, and very rarely does anyone point out the connection for the low-information voter on the pinch/pain/pull he's feeling in his paycheck/pocketbook with the debt.

    The conditioning of the American electorate has worked out better than either party could have ever dreamed.

    They get the uneducated and emotional to cast their consent while convincing the disgusted and apathetic that it's pointless to even turn out.

    The lesser of only two evils "strategy" serves its timeless purpose of maintaining the monopoly for these 2 useless horses. Since they are the only 2 horses "allowed" on the parade track, the "race" never goes to the swift or the strong - each continues to simply take their turn "winning".

    This is how it will continue until the electorate wake up and withhold their consent from a party that no longer even tries to represent us or secure our Liberty.
    I think you're wrong. First, it's always a lesser evil strategy. Always. Whether the ballot contains 2 names or 10. Second, it's not an uneducated electorate that is the problem (well, not the driving problem), but the election formatting. Give people the option to vote for more than 2 candidates, and I bet you things change. Regardless of how uneducated they are. The real manipulation is in the way the elections are held and the fact that they favor 2 parties, 2 parties who have made it that way in the interest of self-preservation.

    Just look at Indiana and what it takes to get on the ballot if you aren't an R or a D. How do you think things would change if election laws simply required a minimum number of signatures and a filing before the deadline?
     

    Shadow8088

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    So?

    A vote for Obama is a vote to ban guns.

    We all know it.

    And this is a GUN FORUM.
    So, that was the only thing at stake? Guns? Romney would have caved to the gun pressure and we all know it... dude has more flip flops than a crowded beach, or a rural walmart..
     

    jbombelli

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    So, that was the only thing at stake? Guns? Romney would have caved to the gun pressure and we all know it... dude has more flip flops than a crowded beach, or a rural walmart..

    THIS IS A GUN BOARD. GUNS IS THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE HERE.

    A vote for Obama was a vote for gun control, and everyone of us knows it.
     

    jamil

    code ho
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    Jul 17, 2011
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    So, that was the only thing at stake? Guns? Romney would have caved to the gun pressure and we all know it... dude has more flip flops than a crowded beach, or a rural walmart..

    Yeah, good thing Obama didn't cave. Can you see how ridiculous your argument is?
     

    ATM

    will argue for sammiches.
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    Jul 29, 2008
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    ...I think you're wrong. First, it's always a lesser evil strategy. Always. Whether the ballot contains 2 names or 10.

    You know that the conditioning pushes only two, as I stated, regardless of how many names are on the ballot. I asked some friends after they voted in the last general if they even recognized the third name on their Indiana ballot - most did not. When asked why they hadn't informed themselves on the options they would have to choose from... nothing. No excuse. They were conditioned to believe that any other choice or choices would simply be throwing their vote away (a very popular but flawed notion).


    Second, it's not an uneducated electorate that is the problem (well, not the driving problem), but the election formatting. Give people the option to vote for more than 2 candidates, and I bet you things change. Regardless of how uneducated they are. The real manipulation is in the way the elections are held and the fact that they favor 2 parties, 2 parties who have made it that way in the interest of self-preservation.

    An uneducated electorate either doesn't recognize how the system is rigged or fancies the notion that those responsible will one day just "give" it back.
    We will get back our election system the same way we get back everything else that has been hijacked from us - by demanding its return and then wrestling it away from those who currently hold it captive and manipulate it for their own gain.

    That process can only begin when the masses withdraw their nearly unanimous ongoing consent from the two parties responsible and vest it elsewhere.

    Just look at Indiana and what it takes to get on the ballot if you aren't an R or a D. How do you think things would change if election laws simply required a minimum number of signatures and a filing before the deadline?

    It wouldn't change much without educating and deconditioning the electorate. Remember, most had no idea who that third name on the ballot was this last time and worse, believed that that fact didn't even matter. This will take far more than adding a 4th, 5th or 10th to the list of names that weren't even worthy of a quick Google search for most Americans.

    It's downright sad how right I am on this, whether you think you can agree or not. :(
     

    Tombs

    Grandmaster
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    Jan 13, 2011
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    So, that was the only thing at stake? Guns? Romney would have caved to the gun pressure and we all know it... dude has more flip flops than a crowded beach, or a rural walmart..

    Why didn't you vote for Gary Johnson?

    I did, because he was the only person on the ballot who supported my views.
    Last time I checked, this is how you vote. That is how a republic functions. When you start making it into a political game you're giving up on our republic.
     

    Dauvis

    Plinker
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    Mar 5, 2013
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    Morgan county
    You know that the conditioning pushes only two, as I stated, regardless of how many names are on the ballot. I asked some friends after they voted in the last general if they even recognized the third name on their Indiana ballot - most did not. When asked why they hadn't informed themselves on the options they would have to choose from... nothing. No excuse. They were conditioned to believe that any other choice or choices would simply be throwing their vote away (a very popular but flawed notion).




    An uneducated electorate either doesn't recognize how the system is rigged or fancies the notion that those responsible will one day just "give" it back.
    We will get back our election system the same way we get back everything else that has been hijacked from us - by demanding its return and then wrestling it away from those who currently hold it captive and manipulate it for their own gain.

    That process can only begin when the masses withdraw their nearly unanimous ongoing consent from the two parties responsible and vest it elsewhere.



    It wouldn't change much without educating and deconditioning the electorate. Remember, most had no idea who that third name on the ballot was this last time and worse, believed that that fact didn't even matter. This will take far more than adding a 4th, 5th or 10th to the list of names that weren't even worthy of a quick Google search for most Americans.

    It's downright sad how right I am on this, whether you think you can agree or not. :(

    To be able to get this change, bias in the media needs to be eliminated as well. As it is, journalists have become nothing but mouthpieces of the Democrats and Republicans.
     

    Tombs

    Grandmaster
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    Jan 13, 2011
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    To be able to get this change, bias in the media needs to be eliminated as well. As it is, journalists have become nothing but mouthpieces of the Democrats and Republicans.

    The media is exactly why this word "democracy" is terrifying.

    Direct democracy in the US right now would mean 100% media rule in all forms of politics.

    National mainstream media needs some severe political restrictions. The power they wield right now is near god like status, controlling peoples' perception of reality. People sometimes forget that to have free speech people must be allowed to form their own ideals. If all media was totally aligned they could present a war to the nation that, in reality, isn't taking place. CNN tried that none the less.

    People would start to educate themselves on what they need to know when the media backs out of that picture. At least the people who care anyway.
     

    copperhead-1911

    Shooter
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    May 19, 2013
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    New Castle
    First they drove the voters away, then the activists. Now they're driving their own politicians away from the party. A whole cadre are defecting due to the lost boys in D.C. Boehner and crew are really doing their best to kill themselves.

    Republicans begin to defect - National Conservative | Examiner.com

    They are using a machine gun to shoot themselves in the foot ( I mean an undocumented rapid fire rifle, since they are illegal in DC) Heck more conservatives are ticked over the sellout on amnesty than I can count.

    One thing the dems do is stick to the party line
     
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