Rob Pincus: Sub-Compact 1911's suck

[Hoosier45]

True. That was my point... If personal defense is the need, 1911's (ESPECIALLY Tiny Ones) aren't the tool.

Thousands of students, thousands of guns... of the guns that get brought to 2 day defensive shooting courses (1 Sigma in the last 10 years, Zero Lorcins, etc., etc....) 1911's are the weakest in regard to reliability and the most prone to failure because of operator error (trying to shoot with the safety on... yes, including the "experienced" shooters).

Carrying a 1911, is quite like trying to use a 50 year old classic restored car as a daily driver to get your kids to school, wife home with the groceries and you to/from work. Could you do it? Maybe... but WHY?

So now it's ALL 1911's?

Shootrite and Gunsite train a few people each year, and have for a couple of years. So Tiger McKee, Ed Head, and Il Ling New could all stand to learn from you?

 

[NHT3]

I went through Ken Campbell's Gunsite course a couple of years ago with a commander size 1911 without issue. I don't remember the exact number but about half the class was shooting 1911s, including Ken when he demonstrated things to us. Everyone fired at least 800 rounds over 3 days.
The only problem I saw in my class (14 people) was a Glock that malfunctioned because of "reloaded" ammo. Two malfunctions and one of them stuck a round half way down the barrel. Obviously NOTHING will run on ammo like that. Everyone was asked not to bring their own reloads but it obviously had no effect on one of the participants.
I don't know how the rest of the class treated their weapons but I didn't clean mine for the weekend just to test reliability. All in all a great class that I would give an A+ rating to. Maybe we were just lucky but the old war horses seemed to perform pretty well even with a bunch of rookies shooting them.
[FONT=&quot]NRA Life member [/FONT][FONT=&quot]GSSF member[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Gunsite graduate Certified Glock armorer[/FONT]

 

[rustygunner]

All 1911's suck now? Alrighty then.

Mine run 100%, but I haven't screwed with the original design as far as function. I removed the factory installed FLGR and went to a GI guide rod/plug setup, fitted a new barrel bushing and replaced a few other MIM with machined parts. Only run quality mags and ammunition.

Some of the fancy 1911's aren't worth crap, some cheap ugly ones work great. 1911-type pistols' function issues are related to their varied manufacturers and senseless modifications, not the design of the pistol.

 

[Sirshredalot]

Never had any trouble out of my 27 year old lightweight 3.5" Colt...and my 1981 chevy pickup never left me stranded for a reason that wasnt my fault(out of gas).

I wouldnt own a gun I wouldnt feel comfortable taking to war...and I dont.

+1 for well built Sub 4" 1911's.

God bless
-Shred

 

[Rob Pincus]

So Tiger McKee, Ed Head, and Il Ling New could all stand to learn from you?

Tiger is a friend, Ed won't take my calls... I'm sure we could all learn something from one another.

Who is the other person, the female instructor at the Southwestern Museum of Training, I assume? Yes, I'm sure we could learn from each other too.

Meanwhile, back to the car thing:

EMP Survivalists Aside, seriously... I know that the midwest is all about classic cars ( I do live in Ohio now...), but the point wasn't supposed to be about your hobbies/interests/fantasies, it was about everyday practicality. When I look in the parking lot during classes, I see F150s, Toyotas, BMWs, Hondas and Suburus... not restored Camaros, Willys Jeeps and Ferarris. Yet, because they are MUCH less used in their practical function (defense, (as in mostly NEVER) ) and much more affordable to own as a collectible, I see all kinds of craziness when it comes to guns in holsters.

-RJP

 

[Double T]

I would have to agree that sub 4.25" 1911's are finicky. Heck, you already lose a round, why risk reliability?

It's all about the timing of portions of the ignition/ejection sequence. The cycling stroke is shorter, so the dimensions are smaller, and the variance in tolerances are much tighter so as to make a multitufe of things go wrong.

1911's are pretty finicky anyways, let alone chopping off nearly half of the recoil cycling distance.

 

[LPMan59]

i cant believe this is even a thread. didn't we already learn a while ago from James Yeager that

1) all 1911s suck
2) The Glock is das uberpistol
3) Tight shirts rule

 

[wtfd661]

I've been carrying my Kimber Tactical Ultra II as my off duty carry for over 5 years now and have had zero issues. That includes having to qualify with it every year while shooting strong handed, weak handed, supine, prone, over under and through barricades, etc, etc ,etc and still zero problems with it. I couldn't tell you how many thousands of rounds I have put through it. I guess it hasn't spent enough time on the internet to know it shouldn't be so reliable


The only thing I will say is that no gun fits every person. What is right or perfect for me may not be for you. To each their own.

 

[Hoosier45]

I see all kinds of craziness when it comes to guns in holsters.

-RJP

Define craziness? Are you referring to the number of 1911s you see, or do people bring guns to your class that make you shake your head, like Grandpa's Luger, or something that belongs in a museum? Have you ever told someone that they couldn't take your class with the gun they brought?

 

[Harleyrider_50]

I would have to agree that sub 4.25" 1911's are finicky. Heck, you already lose a round, why risk reliability?

It's all about the timing of portions of the ignition/ejection sequence. The cycling stroke is shorter, so the dimensions are smaller, and the variance in tolerances are much tighter so as to make a multitufe of things go wrong.

1911's are pretty finicky anyways, let alone chopping off nearly half of the recoil cycling distance.

?......dunno dude.....see the avatar? never coughs or miss's a stroke...ever, and uhh.....lose a round?.....Nah......10+1.......

(said somwhere's else,the dude in the vid's full'a sh*t....)

 

[Spiorad-Fola]

Never had a single issue with any of my 1911's.....although the shortest i own is a Commander length. My EDC is a full sized 1911, gets a tad weighty at the end of the day sometimes, but that's a small price to pay for something i trust with my life.

 

[Twentyfootdaredevil]

Its nothing to get upset about but I know now to not pay any attention to Rob Pincus.

I think its more important to be comfortable with what you like to carry. I bought a G19 for less than $200, I have never shot it and i don't ever plan to. Its just not a pistol I care to have.

I guess those boys that carried the 1911 into battle should have had Rob Pincus around to show them the error of their ways.

 

[StrongSide]

There are plenty of great guns out there.

I don't think you can have a strong argument against a 1911.

 

[Double T]

?......dunno dude.....see the avatar? never coughs or miss's a stroke...ever, and uhh.....lose a round?.....Nah......10+1.......

(said somwhere's else,the dude in the vid's full'a sh*t....)

A double stack isn't a 1911.