super shorty

[ShootnCut]

Just don't think it's any kind of precision instrument... "minute of watermelon" is good from what I've witnessed.

Also - the push/pull technique isn't a good one for a standoff situation. Too much muscle fatigue.

But if you find yourself in a standoff situation with a Serbu Super Shorty - then muscle fatigue is probably rather low on the scale of things to worry about.

Agreed on all three. I'd never consider using my AOW for a real life defensive situation. (zombie apocalypse being the exception)
Wouldn't want to deal with the legalities or what would happen to it while in the evidence room. And can you imagine the headlines....... "Man Kills Intruder With Sawed Off Shotgun, And He'll Actually Be Getting It Back!" The idiot media would have a field day.

 

[ArevaloSocom]

Have always wanted one.

 

[gunselman]

For those of you who are questioning the legality of the Shockwave webpage, its totally legal.....if...... you start with a shotgun that was sold with out a shoulder stock (and has never had a shoulder stock affixed to it) you are good to go. These are considered Pistol Grip Only firearms (PGO's). The one caveat is you must have an overall length that is over 26". The OAL has no direct relation to the barrel length. So you could have a 6" barrel as long as the pistol grip on the end made the OAL (measured parallel to the bore) over 26"

 

[indianachris]

shockwavetechnologies.com » The 14? Mossberg 500 That ISN?T NFA!

K I got a thinker for you all here... this set up legal here in IN or what?

I actually have that same grip on my Super Shorty and it works great. I can shoot 00 buckshot all day and my hands never get sore.

 

[1911ly]

For those of you who are questioning the legality of the Shockwave webpage, its totally legal.....if...... you start with a shotgun that was sold with out a shoulder stock (and has never had a shoulder stock affixed to it) you are good to go. These are considered Pistol Grip Only firearms (PGO's). The one caveat is you must have an overall length that is over 26". The OAL has no direct relation to the barrel length. So you could have a 6" barrel as long as the pistol grip on the end made the OAL (measured parallel to the bore) over 26"

I call BS. It's still a receiver for a shotgun. And the barrel is still a shotgun barrel. It's a SBS. And minimum barrel length is 18 inches. Less then 18 inches is a SBS barrel. The OAL has to be 26 plus inches with a barrel length to be no less the 18 inches. I don't see the law as your logic presents it. By one and set a precedence. I'll bet you can't get it in to Indiana. If you do then I'll buy one. Because I think the law is BS. Please prove me wrong. I'd like to be wrong!

 

[engineerpower]

Here are the relevant snippets of Indiana Code:

IC 35-47-1-10
"Sawed-off shotgun"
Sec. 10. "Sawed-off shotgun" means:
(1) a shotgun having one (1) or more barrels less than eighteen (18) inches in length; and
(2) any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if the weapon as modified has an overall length of less than twenty-six (26) inches.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.


IC 35-47-1-11
"Shotgun"
Sec. 11. "Shotgun" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.

IC 35-47-1-6
"Handgun"
Sec. 6. "Handgun" means any firearm:
(1) designed or adapted so as to be aimed and fired from one (1) hand, regardless of barrel length; or
(2) any firearm with:
(A) a barrel less than sixteen (16) inches in length; or
(B) an overall length of less than twenty-six (26) inches.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.


From US Code:
26 U.S. Code § 5845 (e) Any other weapon

The term “any other weapon” means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.


As I understand the code, a PGO shotgun would be considered a "pistol" in Indiana, and since it never had a shoulder stock even with the birdshead grip, it cannot be considered a "shotgun". The ATF letter relied on to kosher-ize this configuration states that 26" is the criteria for being "concealable". I don't see where a PGO shotgun with a 14" barrel and enough pistolgrip to bring it to 26" runs afoul IC, and the only issue with U.S.C. is the "pistol... having a barrel with a smooth bore designed... to fire a fixed shotgun shell". How is that they're getting around this part how the code?

 

[1911ly]

Here are the relevant snippets of Indiana Code:




IC 35-47-1-11
"Shotgun"
Sec. 11. "Shotgun" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.

As I understand the code, a PGO shotgun would be considered a "pistol" in Indiana, and since it never had a shoulder stock even with the birdshead grip, it cannot be considered a "shotgun". The ATF letter relied on to kosher-ize this configuration states that 26" is the criteria for being "concealable". I don't see where a PGO shotgun with a 14" barrel and enough pistolgrip to bring it to 26" runs afoul IC, and the only issue with U.S.C. is the "pistol... having a barrel with a smooth bore designed... to fire a fixed shotgun shell". How is that they're getting around this part how the code?

I highlighted the area that I think is the deal breaker. I can't see how they can get around it. You read it the same way I do. You have the shotgun round and the caliber issue. And probably many other issues.

 

[engineerpower]

IC 35-47-1-11
"Shotgun"
Sec. 11. "Shotgun" means a weapon designed... to be fired from the shoulder AND designed... to use... a fixed shotgun shell...
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.

I've cleaned up the chaff from the code, and hope this clarifies it. As I read it, a device needs to have a shoulder stock AND use a shotshell. Thus a factory PGO only meets 1 of the 2 conditions, and thus is not a "shotgun" and is instead considered a handgun in Indiana.

 

[1911ly]

I might send a email to my NFA lawyer and see how he reads it.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

IC 35-47-1-11
"Shotgun"
Sec. 11. "Shotgun" means a weapon designed... to be fired from the shoulder AND designed... to use... a fixed shotgun shell...
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.

I've cleaned up the chaff from the code, and hope this clarifies it. As I read it, a device needs to have a shoulder stock AND use a shotshell. Thus a factory PGO only meets 1 of the 2 conditions, and thus is not a "shotgun" and is instead considered a handgun in Indiana.

Correct.

In IN, you have to be 21 to purchase a PGO shotgun from an FFL as well as to "carry one".

 

[Wheeler78]

I'm curious what a real lawyer might say about this...

 

[engineerpower]

I'm curious what a real lawyer might say about this...

"Maybe.
That will be $600."

 

[pharmboy]

I just bought a 12.5" 870 AOW on gunbroker yesterday. And the wait begins again . But I'll have plenty of time to make a nice wood birdshead grip and find a riot forend for it to get it set up just like ShootnCut's.

 

[ShootnCut]

I just bought a 12.5" 870 AOW on gunbroker yesterday. And the wait begins again . But I'll have plenty of time to make a nice wood birdshead grip and find a riot forend for it to get it set up just like ShootnCut's.

Congratulations......you'll enjoy it. Be aware, if you got the same one I did from Automatic Weaponry, they installed a full Remchoke in it using green locktite. I destroyed a factory choke tube wrench trying to remove mine. After calling the mfgr and learning of the situation I used a heat gun to heat it up and was able to remove it without wrecking the barrel or finish using a steel t-handle choke wrench.

 

[pharmboy]

Mine was made by Dove's Custom Guns, I believe it comes with a cylinder bore. My winning bid for it was $495 with $20 priority shipping once the Form 3 goes through.

 

[ShootnCut]

Mine was made by Dove's Custom Guns, I believe it comes with a cylinder bore. My winning bid for it was $495 with $20 priority shipping once the Form 3 goes through.

That's what I paid for mine 25 years ago. Sounds like a great deal.
You'll have to get used to hearing: "That's a sawed off shotgun! Ain't them illegal?"
So you reply: "Yep....sawed off shotguns are illegal in Indiana."

 

[pharmboy]

The wood pistol grip on yours, ShootnCut, Is that the Wilson/Scattergun one, or is it cut from a police wood stock?

 

[ShootnCut]

It's the one that came on it, made by Automatic Weaponry in Brentwood TN back in the late 80's.
The WP 870's made by Wilson could be distinguished by the Winchoke that stuck out about 1/4" from the muzzle. If you watch the guy shooting up the supermarket in the movie Cobra you can see one.
The earlier Wilson isn't the same as the current Wilson/Scattergun. He was in Ga and the current one is in AR.
I've never seen one by Wilson/Scattergun but as I remember from pictures they used a Remchoke. I know they quit offering them a few years ago so I don't know where you'd get one of the grips. It looks like you could cut down a standard stock and get the same thing.
Here's one of the earlier ones.

 

[Nazgul]

I have had a Super Shorty for several years. Hundreds of rounds through it. Serious fun!

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[ShootnCut]

Factory 14" barrel with Shockwave grip...................