To what extent do you engage antis in your personal life?

[ol' Huff]

Some dudes give up their guns and become antis because they think doing so will get them into a chicks pants. Ironically, I've never known a woman who gave up her guns to get in a dudes pants.

 

[yote hunter]

If a anti gun person wants to be my friend then they don't need to bring up there anti BS cause I don't want to hear it and I am who I am and they are who they are so just keep it to themselves and go on about there business.. If they cant do that then I guess we don't need to be friends... I got to many friends anyway all 3 of them. .. I may just get ride of one of them anyway just because hes a dick....

 

[BugI02]

I don't have any insight on how to reason with him, but I have experienced the same thing and I was shocked. I had to listen to a list of things "civiilians" shouldn't be allowed to own, including ARs, AKs, and any gun that fires more than six rounds because "no one needs more than six rounds."

Thanks for the reply. This is what I'm worried about encountering and am trying to guage what the worst case might be and prepare accordingly. Any idea how he or she arrived at their conclusion. I guess I have a hard time comprehending how you go from your life depending on your weapons everyday to only authorized people should have them, and no apparent thought about who gets to do the authorizations.

 

[actaeon277]

A bit tangential to the core issue but could use a little input from INGO. I've recently found out that my nephew, who did two tours in the sandbox w/the army, has become 'against private ownership' of firearms. I haven't yet explored what this means with him because I'm waiting until we can talk FTF. For the life of me I can't fathom how his viewpoint could have moved so radically in a relatively short time. The only thing I do know is in the same time frame his father's view have moved drastically in a conservative direction so it may be a case of 'for whatever my father is against'. Has anyone run into this viewpoint from ex-military and can you let me know what arguments I might encounter from him when I do engage him. He and I have a very cordial relationship and I think he will actually listen to what I say although agreement won't be automatic.

Maybe ask him why he doesn't take his oath seriously.
After all, if he's willing to throw the 2nd under the bus, what else?
the 4th?
the 1st?
Does he pick and choose?

I don't seem to remember those choices when I took my oath.

 

[Thor]

Unfortunately, for many an oath is just "Raise your right hand, state your name, blah blah blah blah." Violating that oath and throwing rights under the bus is just another part of their lack of personal integrity.

 

[rhino]

Thanks for the reply. This is what I'm worried about encountering and am trying to guage what the worst case might be and prepare accordingly. Any idea how he or she arrived at their conclusion. I guess I have a hard time comprehending how you go from your life depending on your weapons everyday to only authorized people should have them, and no apparent thought about who gets to do the authorizations.

I think he bought into the non-stop good guns vs. bad guns rhetoric in the 1990s and how regular people should be only be allowed the kind of guns for which they could demonstrate a need. I have not revisited the topic with him for close to 10 years. When I challenged him, his primary defense was that I didn't have kids, so I couldn't understand.

A lot of believing lies and half-truths and not much critical thinking went into that position. I hope he has evolved since then, but I may never know.

 

[BugI02]

Maybe ask him why he doesn't take his oath seriously.
After all, if he's willing to throw the 2nd under the bus, what else?
the 4th?
the 1st?
Does he pick and choose?


I don't seem to remember those choices when I took my oath.

Thank you! I think this would be a good direction to come at the question from. He swore an oath to defend the constitution and I believe he took his service seriously. And 2A is most certainly part of what he swore to defend.

 

[RobbyMaQ]

I think he bought into the non-stop good guns vs. bad guns rhetoric in the 1990s and how regular people should be only be allowed the kind of guns for which they could demonstrate a need. I have not revisited the topic with him for close to 10 years. When I challenged him, his primary defense was that I didn't have kids, so I couldn't understand.

A lot of believing lies and half-truths and not much critical thinking went into that position. I hope he has evolved since then, but I may never know.

That's crazy talk. How could one NOT want to be able to better protect/defend their own kids?

 

[GIJEW]

There have been plenty of successful "conversion" stories on INGO. Almost all have started with taking the person shooting. Once the person sees how much fun they can have and starts getting interested in firearms, they'll do their own mental gymnastics to justify their new opinion.

Feeling the recoil and the fun of getting a successful hit is a much more persuasive argument than "well, these words mean this".

I've found that taking them shooting can change their minds, but that a "liberal" living in a cocoon of "liberalism" is a more likely indicator of whether they change their minds. I think it does moderate their views though. My sister-in-law did tell quarrelsome "liberals" that the NRA was right about "assualt weapons" not being machine guns in 1994, having experienced firing semi-auto. That doesn't mean she's not 'anti-gun' though.

 

[Cygnus]

There is another category of anti-gunner: The ones who believe (correctly) that they would be irresponsible with a gun because they are impulsive and lacking in appropriate temperament, therefore no one else should be allowed to have one.
I agree with them about their first opinion, but vehemently disagree with them about their second.

I agree. It's projection. Because they think they would snap, they think everyone will.

You guys are right. I once had someone ask me "But don't you ever get a split second urge to let go of the wheel of your car when you are going around a curve?" Uhhhhh. NO.

Some dudes give up their guns and become antis because they think doing so will get them into a chicks pants. Ironically, I've never known a woman who gave up her guns to get in a dudes pants.

Hey, hey, You leave Mr. Penn out of this........He likely has some guns in one of his other houses still.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...-sean-penn-turns-his-guns-into-sculpture.html

 

[rhino]

That's crazy talk. How could one NOT want to be able to better protect/defend their own kids?

Don't confuse the issue with logic and facts! He truly believed, at least then, that he didn't need anything more than 6 shots for any reason.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I think he bought into the non-stop good guns vs. bad guns rhetoric in the 1990s and how regular people should be only be allowed the kind of guns for which they could demonstrate a need. I have not revisited the topic with him for close to 10 years. When I challenged him, his primary defense was that I didn't have kids, so I couldn't understand.

A lot of believing lies and half-truths and not much critical thinking went into that position. I hope he has evolved since then, but I may never know.

I have a daughter in her mid 20s. I have a grandson who is 3 months old yesterday. If his main defense is related to having children, my answer is, "Bring it." You don't need more than six shots?
Answer #1: Thug #7
Answer #2: Miss #1
Answer #3: Amendment #2
Answer #4: Go fist yourself. Sideways.

I'll defend my family, with deadly force if needed. What will you defend yours with? Strong language?

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Thor]

I think I'd move answer #4 to #1...

Also add...Ferguson, Baltimore, any night in Chicago or Detroit...

 

[Bill of Rights]

I think I'd move answer #4 to #1...

Also add...Ferguson, Baltimore, any night in Chicago or Detroit...

Actually, I debated whether to include #4 at all. It's exceedingly impolite, and I don't like going there. I ultimately decided to include it as a preface to the next two sentences and suggestion of possible means.

The additions you suggest are quite a bit more powerful.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[RobbyMaQ]

Some are just uneducated about guns in general.
We had a secretary that was asking questions about our gun ownership (3 of us, including the owner are active 2a exercisers... which is about the only execise I get btw, but I digress), and asked why someone would need thousands of rounds of ammo.

When I explained that I could easily shoot 500 rounds in a one weekend training event, she piped up and said "Well they don't tell you THAT in the news".

It sorta becomes self evident... others need a little coaxing... sometimes getting mugged, or robbed, sadly

 

[Bill of Rights]

Some are just uneducated about guns in general.
We had a secretary that was asking questions about our gun ownership (3 of us, including the owner are active 2a exercisers... which is about the only execise I get btw, but I digress), and asked why someone would need thousands of rounds of ammo.

When I explained that I could easily shoot 500 rounds in a one weekend training event, she piped up and said "Well they don't tell you THAT in the news".

It sorta becomes self evident... others need a little coaxing... sometimes getting mugged, or robbed, sadly

And with the lack of awareness of how quickly you can burn through ammo goes the thought of all of us being untrained redneck vigilantes, dangerous to all around us. If you train weekly, that's ~2000 rds a month, or 26,000 rds/year. Admittedly, most don't train that much or that often, (Lord knows I don't ) but even training once a month, that's still 6,000 rds/yr.
Limitations like "no more than 100 rds at a time" mean you can't train often, or mean that as soon as you're starting to get warmed up, you're done. Or both. Why do I need thousands of rounds of ammo? Same reason you don't just put a gallon at a time in your car, or only buy one can of beer, instead of a six pack, 12 pack, or case. Actually... now that I think about it, that's a better analogy. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't beer cheaper when you buy in bulk packs? (like a case is cheaper than buying four 6-packs individually) I honestly don't know. I don't drink alcohol.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[lovemachine]

I know of some gun guys that believe anything over 6 rounds is unnecessary.

 

[SSGSAD]

YES

Same reason you don't just put a gallon at a time in your car, or only buy one can of beer, instead of a six pack, 12 pack, or case. Actually... now that I think about it, that's a better analogy. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't beer cheaper when you buy in bulk packs? (like a case is cheaper than buying four 6-packs individually) I honestly don't know. I don't drink alcohol.

Yes, a case, is usually cheaper than one .....

 

[Bill of Rights]

I know of some gun guys that believe anything over 6 rounds is unnecessary.

Have 'em shoot an El Presidente drill with six rounds.

(ETA: OK, Wiki has a different description of the El Presidente than I knew. Wiki says 6 shots, reload, and 6 more. My understanding was it was two center mass and one headshot on each target, starting with 6, reloading once. In other words, small difference, only reason to use more than 9 rounds was if you missed. My reference above was to the latter.)

 

[actaeon277]

Some are just uneducated about guns in general.
We had a secretary that was asking questions about our gun ownership (3 of us, including the owner are active 2a exercisers... which is about the only execise I get btw, but I digress), and asked why someone would need thousands of rounds of ammo.

When I explained that I could easily shoot 500 rounds in a one weekend training event, she piped up and said "Well they don't tell you THAT in the news".

It sorta becomes self evident... others need a little coaxing... sometimes getting mugged, or robbed, sadly

And there lies a big part of the problem.
"Well they don't tell you THAT in the news".
People are told many thing by then news, over and over. And without actually trying to find out if it's true, they will assume - it is true.
If something like that is explained, then it usually is by a smaller, local news. But across the nation..... nope.

I know of some gun guys that believe anything over 6 rounds is unnecessary.

Sadly, I know a guy who believes a lever action rifle is "all anyone ever needs if they need more rounds".
He doesn't listen when I explain, "That used to be an assault rifle", and "people used to say you'd never need that many bullets" about those types of guns.

YES

Same reason you don't just put a gallon at a time in your car, or only buy one can of beer, instead of a six pack, 12 pack, or case. Actually... now that I think about it, that's a better analogy. Someone correct me if I'm mistaken, but isn't beer cheaper when you buy in bulk packs? (like a case is cheaper than buying four 6-packs individually) I honestly don't know. I don't drink alcohol.

Yes, a case, is usually cheaper than one .....

I tried explaining the car analogy. You don't "need" to go more than 30 mph, unless you're running from the police. You don't "need" a 15 gallon tank, you could get a 5 gallon and just refill more.
I'm told, "That isn't the same".
But it is.