Turkey really shoots down a Mig today

[Alamo]

I believe that's correct, but there is a distinction. An airborne force is invading, it is inherently an offensive active, even if dropping in support. Pilots shot down are not.

I think that is the correct distinction. There have been "customary" laws or traditions of warfare that shooting soldiers/sailors/airmen in distress (e.g. wounded & surrendering/ship sunk/bailed out pilot) are not legitimate targets, but often observed in the breach. In WWII the US fighter pilots tended not to shoot at Germans they had just shot down, feeling it wrong (and also perhaps a waste of time and dangerous if there were other German fighters about). The Germans generally, but not always, did the same. The Japanese on the other hand did not seem to have any regard for that particular tradition, and I suspect US pilots probably reciprocated.

An actual international Geneva Convention-type agreement that shooting airmen descending in parachutes from shot-down planes did not happen until well after WWII.

I'm not sure about the state of international law for naval equivalents (i.e. sailors in the water from a sunk warship), I was an Air Force guy, not Navy. I know in WWII a German sub got bombed while trying to rescue survivors of a ship it had just torpedoed, which pretty much put a halt to the German Navy ever trying to save survivors for the rest of the war.

 

[Kutnupe14]

All I'll say is that if you bomb my homeland, and someone get a lucky shot, disables your aircraft, and you bail out.... if you stray in my sights, as you descend, your surviving family can send their complaint to Geneva.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Marco Rubio on Turkey-Russia escalation - Business Insider

Rubio argued that the US should make clear that it would go to war to defend Turkey, which is a member of the NATO alliance. If the US did that, Rubio said he would "hope" and expect that Russia would not confront NATO.

"He'll have to do something to save face, but ultimately he is not going to test the alliance if he believes the alliance is going to stand up to him. Because he'll lose in that confrontation," Rubio said.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Russia probably wasn't going to do anything.... until the Americans opened their mouth.

 

[T.Lex]

Russia probably wasn't going to do anything.... until the Americans opened their mouth.

I'm not convinced of this.

After a series of escalating warnings, Russia gave Turkey another wedgie and Turkey turned around and landed a bloody punch to the nose. Putin didn't seriously think something like this would happen, so is caught off guard for a change. There was going to be some sort of response, because Russia has greater leverage. It might not've been military, but something was going to happen. That is who Putin is.

What NATO or the UN says just changes the dynamic of a response, not whether it would happen.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Russia is led by a man, we as Americans aren't used to that so it's hard to understand what they'll do.

they probably want Syria and turkey anyway.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Russia is led by a man, we as Americans aren't used to that so it's hard to understand what they'll do.

they probably want Syria and turkey anyway.

Putin is a horrible world leader.

 

[T.Lex]

Putin is a horrible world leader.

Perhaps, but he is an excellent leader of Russia. They are, again, a world power.

 

[jamil]

Putin is a horrible world leader.

Perhaps, but he is an excellent leader of Russia. They are, again, a world power.

He's an excellent leader for Putin.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Again - "International Relations" is the business of one country screwing another.

It applies in this case. Putin is a fairly adept player - whether we think he's a slimeball or not is irrelevant. We have to respect the player on the other side of the chessboard as a force to be reckoned with, if we are to have a hope of winning.

Obama is not capable of holding Putin's jockstrap in the foreign relations business. His weakness is related to pride, hubris and arrogance. Interestingly - Hillary has many of the same flaws.

 

[Kutnupe14]

He's an excellent leader for Putin.

Exactly. Russia is world power, again, at the expense of its people.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Again - "International Relations" is the business of one country screwing another.

It applies in this case. Putin is a fairly adept player - whether we think he's a slimeball or not is irrelevant. We have to respect the player on the other side of the chessboard as a force to be reckoned with, if we are to have a hope of winning.

Obama is not capable of holding Putin's jockstrap in the foreign relations business. His weakness is related to pride, hubris and arrogance. Interestingly - Hillary has many of the same flaws.

He's not an adept players, he's just better than his contemporaries.

 

[actaeon277]

All I'll say is that if you bomb my homeland, and someone get a lucky shot, disables your aircraft, and you bail out.... if you stray in my sights, as you descend, your surviving family can send their complaint to Geneva.

And do you see where it can go if you strafe people that have given up, shoot sailors in the water, pilots in the chute?
Walk into a POW camp and empty your mag into everyone. Do you see where an already ugly business such as war gets even uglier.

 

[Kutnupe14]

And do you see where it can go if you strafe people that have given up, shoot sailors in the water, pilots in the chute?
Walk into a POW camp and empty your mag into everyone. Do you see where an already ugly business such as war gets even uglier.

Then perhaps the pilots should carry white flags to unfurl as they descend, pop a can of red smoke, have something that makes a lot of noise. A pilot falling to the ground isnt thinking "oh I'm a non-combatant now." They're thinking evade capture. If it's not CLEAR you're giving up, you should be fair game.

 

[actaeon277]

Then perhaps the pilots should carry white flags to unfurl as they descend, pop a can of red smoke, have something that makes a lot of noise. A pilot falling to the ground isnt thinking "oh I'm a non-combatant now." They're thinking evade capture. If it's not CLEAR you're giving up, you should be fair game.

I think it's related to the medium.
A pilot is defenseless under a parachute.
A sailor is defenseless in the water (unless he's a SEAL)
You could say that you as a homeowner is defenseless, which is why those types of casualties are minimized, unless you're going full out world war.
When the pilot is on land, or the sailor rescued, then yes they can try to evade. And shot while evading.
Some WWII submariners were in a bit of trouble for possibly machine gunning survivors of torpedo attacks.

 

[Fargo]

Unless the Syrian rebels are signatories to whatever Convention(s) prohibit shooting parachuting pilots, I'm unclear why anyone would think them bound by or protected by them?

 

[Leadeye]

Warming up the SS-18s.

 

[actaeon277]

Unless the Syrian rebels are signatories to whatever Convention(s) prohibit shooting parachuting pilots, I'm unclear why anyone would think them bound by or protected by them?

I thought they were shot at by Turkey?

 

[Fargo]

I thought they were shot at by Turkey?

Plane was shot down by Turkey, the people claiming to have shot the pilots are Syrian rebels of Turkish ancestry as I understand it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Turkmen_Brigades

 

[drop45]

And since Turkey is part of NATO you can bet that won't end well. Turkey's actually backing ISIS because they're more worried about the Kurds.

I don't recall the last time a Kurdish national beheaded someone, got a link I may have missed?