USPSA Carry Optic rule change.

[romack991]

"Carry"

Right now the only really popular production guns that are too fat are the Stock 2 & 3

It's not "Carry." It's either politics or stubbornness.

 

[jakemartens]

It's not "Carry." It's either politics or stubbornness.

Could be...both
People do carry a full size 1911 at 43+ oz

 

[riverman67]

This stuff is still provisional and it will be until at least 2018.
Changing the round count is enough to get me to try it out. My eyes aren't getting any better.
I'm not sure I understand the reasoning behind the weight limit.
I'm not sure I care.

 

[EjForks]

Why have a weight of 45 oz. when a lot of Production legal guns weigh close to 50 oz. If you can get a scope on it and it is on the Production legal list it should be LEGAL for CO.

I always assumed it was to give the polymer guns a place to play. But then they upped the weight to the point that CZs are legal, so I don't really see the point. To me production weight +4 oz seems to make the most sense.

 

[sv40sw45]

So I guess my stock 2 with a .6 oz J Point is not legal.

 

[rvb]

"Carry"

"carry" w/ 140s ?

 

[Dog1]

"carry" w/ 140s ?

In the gun? No

As a reload? I sometimes carry one of my 140's as a spare.

With that said, they just should have allowed Carry Optics to load mags to standard capacity. It's really not that hard.

 

[rvb]

In the gun? No

As a reload? I sometimes carry one of my 140's as a spare.

With that said, they just should have allowed Carry Optics to load mags to standard capacity. It's really not that hard.

I was more trying to point out the irony of having the weight limit, then allowing 140s. But maybe I'm just not tactical enough to understand ...
"to capacity" has it's own equipment race problems, which is why IPSC got away from it in their prod division...

-rvb

 

[Dog1]

I was more trying to point out the irony of the weight limit, then allowing 140s. But maybe I'm just not tactical enough to understand ...
"to capacity" has it's own equipment race problems, which is why IPSC got away from it in their prod division...

-rvb

I know what you were saying.

The 140's are the classic example of going to far one way.

As for the equipment race problems by allowing shooters to load to their capacity, I don't see it.

"Carry Optics" by definition, means Carry. So, let them load to their weapons standard capacity.

It's really not going to put one shooter at that much more of an advantage over another. Skill will even it out.

Again my opinion.

Hell, I'm just going to matches to shoot and have fun with my friends. So either way is fine for me.

 

[rvb]

As for the equipment race problems by allowing shooters to load to their capacity, I don't see it.

Gun A holds 15+1 rounds.
Gun B holds 19+1 rounds.
which gun will everyone buy to use in the division?

But that's a digression from my real point. Weight limit not allowing everything on prod list is stupid. I have no real problem with 140s for the division.

It's not something I'm passionate about either way, as I have no intent currently of shooting the division. But it's the internet, so I get to have an opinion regardless.

Only from a rules enforcement standpoint, it's harder to know if guns are legal because now I can't just look at the prod list, I have to have scales, also.

edit: something like this would work much better and parallel the enforcement we have with production much better. I don't know enough about the small dots to know if +4 is reasonable... seems light when we're also talking basepads for 140s, taller irons for backup, etc.

There was a couple of proposed weight changes
Production +4oz

-rvb

 

[GBuck]

"Carry"

Right now the only really popular production guns that are too fat are the Stock 2 & 3

You don't carry a stock 2 every day?

 

[mongo404]

Could be...both
People do carry a full size 1911 at 43+ oz

But they don't have to tell their attacker to wait while they turn their dot on..
Almost as bad as carrying a pistol without one in the chamber.

Carry.... what a joke!!!!

I agree with RVB should have just been production list guns. same rules as production except mags to capacity milling allowed to accept slide ride dot.

Production optics done...



But I think production should be loaded to magazine capacity as well.

 

[riverman67]

Now you're being ridiculous

 

[Twangbanger]

...I agree with RVB should have just been production list guns. same rules as production except mags to capacity milling allowed to accept slide ride dot.

Production optics done...

I think Poorman's Open might make sense, if you applied the 40 major floor to Open.

But then you wouldn't have heard so much butching since the revolver guys had to sell their 45s......

 

[jakemartens]

But they don't have to tell their attacker to wait while they turn their dot on..
Almost as bad as carrying a pistol without one in the chamber.

Carry.... what a joke!!!!

I agree with RVB should have just been production list guns. same rules as production except mags to capacity milling allowed to accept slide ride dot.

Production optics done...



But I think production should be loaded to magazine capacity as well.

I can tell you that they ain't touching Production division

 

[jakemartens]

Phil came up with the division
-production approved guns
-35oz weight limit
-no mods other than mounting the optic

people *****ed about it and there was less 1% off activity for 2015 in Carry Optics, it was DAO

2016 they raised the weight limit, allowed grip mods, slide mods (no holes or ports) and allowed the 140mm mags but limited capacity
(this was because overwhelmingly people said that they had mag extensions and didn't want to take them off)
they discussed changing the name to production optics, however there would be some back end work but there would be some back end on changing the name in all the scoring systems etc, plus there was the "does this mean that carry optics is dead, no longer provisional, and now production optics starts as a new division"...easy solution leave it
activity raised from less than 1% to 3.7% for 2016

Every AD had heard a want for increased capacity, some had heard about all production guns, Matt Hopkins sent in a proposal for Production +4oz
there was OEM mag capacity, adding weights, allow in lasers, just 15 rounds, should there be magwells

after a very long discussion where every AD, myself, Troy and Gary and Foley all gave opinions and thoughts the only consensus was
-keep it provisional
-140mm mag stays, remove capacity

they made no actions on anything else, and set it for review in Jan 2018

Based on survey data the only popular gun that doesn't make it is the Stock 2 and 3, and the Shadow 2 will not make it.

So yeah carry can be considered silly because probably not many are going to carry a shadow with a red dot and 140mm mags, but the names stayed instead of having to do a bunch of software stuff and changes and starting it over as provisional...it was the easier, most cost effective thing to do

The thing I don't get is people that have zero plans to shoot the division seem to ***** about more than the people that are shooting it.
If you are not going to shoot it, why does it matter.
Same people ***** about why we have revolver or L10...just because we have it doesn't mean you have to shoot it, last time I checked you were only shooting against the people in your division.

If having Carry Optics brings in a new shooter that went and bought a 17 MOS, or S&W CORE and paid to put a Leupold on it or Trijicon shows up to shoot your match is that any different than a new person that went and bought a S&W M&P or a CZ Shaodwo and shows up to shoot production?
So what if it is only 3 guys...could all be new, could all be the guy that wants to come and help next month, takes an RO class, then designs a stage...end up doing a lot more because he found something he really liked because we had a place for him to go and shoot his new gun.

I shot almost nothing but 1911 single stacks in IDPA until Viray told me to go and shoot a USPSA Match.
Bought 10 rounds mags and shot L10 until Single Stack became a provisional division, then shot single stack, that was 2004.
Everyone starts somewhere, pretty sure the name of the division isn't going to keep people away

 

[Bosshoss]

^^^^^
This.

 

[sporter]

1 Division per shooter at every match. Everyone is 1st place.

 

[jakemartens]

1 Division per shooter at every match. Everyone is 1st place.

everyone that finishes gets a ribbon
no divisions
no competition, just participation
throw the classification system out
get rid of the scoring zones, just 1 hit anywhere
and screw power factor, if it goes bang and make a hole then good enough

 

[sporter]

everyone that finishes gets a ribbon
no divisions
no competition, just participation
throw the classification system out
get rid of the scoring zones, just 1 hit anywhere
and screw power factor, if it goes bang and make a hole then good enough

We need Limited 10 Open
PCC Open, PCC Production, Revolver L6, Revolver L7, Production Optics, Carry Optics, PCC Limited, Open, Carry Open, Limited 10, Limited 15.
Production Major, Production w/Comp, Limited w/Comp, Limited Open, PCC Major, PCC 10, Single Stack w/Comp, Carry Revo, Revo Back-up gun, BUG open.

Production w/magwell, Revo w/magwell, PCC pistol brace, PCC pistol, PCC bull barrel bullseye,

I got about half a match covered. 30 more divisions and everyone is 1st place!