Why I will not buy a little, single stack handgun

[88E30M50]

The 17 or my 21 are working great for me right now. Sold off all my other pistols.

I actually have pocket carried them. Deep concealment is not a problem. Only got made once when my kid knocked something off a store shelf and I had a short shirt on and bent over. Kindly got asked to leave. Not a place I cared to be anyway and have not been back since.

I thought the Sigs were cool and I did pick one up in a flash. Mistake it was. Full size is the way to go.

Now if I can finally narrow it down again to 9 or 45 will be in good shape.

I could never deep conceal my G21. Even my G30 would be tough to deep conceal. Normal concealment on either is easy. By normal concealment, I mean enough concealment to spend a couple of hours at a Simon mall without being harassed. Deep concealment is concealed enough that you can spend a day in a gun free environment populated with people trying to see contraband and not get made. I could never do that with any of my Glocks or 1911s. That little P938 is the only decent caliber pistol that lets me do that.

I'm not saying that the little guns are the best choice for every day carry (for me, that is) but am just saying that they let me go armed in situations I'd otherwise not risk carrying into. For EDC, I typically carry either a CCO sized 1911, a CZ 40P or a Glock 30. If heading to the city after work, that gets bumped up to the G21 more often than not.

 

[Expat]

Just as a test, I put my G17 in the front pants pocket of a pair of baggy Levi's (fat boy cut). No matter how you put it in there, a big part of that pistol is still sticking out of your pocket. The G21 is even a little bit bigger.

 

[WestSider]

I arrived at the same conclusion about a year ago which is why after over a year of carrying a M&P Shield daily I sold it and went back to carrying my Glock 19. With one additional mag I have 31 total rounds at my disposal in a very capable fighting pistol. The Shield still is a great pistol but at the end of the day carrying the 19 is just about as easy and I have more firepower.

Personally to me now the role of a small single stack 380/9mm is as a backup option only.

 

[cedartop]

I did it for two years and never got made, with a 5" 1911. Already talked about how.

Anyway,

Something to mull over, and something to consider in the 'why one cop carries eleventy-billion rounds" is what's the real lesson? To carry more ammo or to work on failure drills and transitioning to head shots earlier?

Indiana hasn't seen it a lot yet, but folks the political climate matters. I'd rather have the conflict be over in 3 rounds from a failure drill than from 15 rounds center mass. This is something I've evolved on, having come from the "shoot at the middle" school of military and LE training, but I've come to be a big believer in the efficiency and the effectiveness of a modified Mozambique, allowing the gun to work up under recoil naturally to the head rather than two quick and a pause and a head shot.

At this years Tactical Conference Darryl Bolke (Nyeti) spoke a lot on this in his Successful Gunfighters segment. He is and has been a big believer in the failure drill, teaching it and having it used to great effect.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

At this years Tactical Conference Darryl Bolke (Nyeti) spoke a lot on this in his Successful Gunfighters segment. He is and has been a big believer in the failure drill, teaching it and having it used to great effect.

It's a rare thing Darryl says that's gun related that I don't agree with. I'd like to attend the TC one year, but it's nearly impossible for me to plan days off that far in advance.

 

[BE Mike]

Oh really

https://www.policeone.com/police-he...ne-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/

There is really a big difference in the likelihood of a civilian facing a situation requiring deadly force and a police officer, who responds to situations that may require deadly force on a regular basis.

 

[FERLACH]

I agree with BE Mike, big differance in handgun need for a police officer and a private citizen.

 

[MohawkSlim]

I'm willing to bet OP has left his gun at home more than once because it couldn't be concealed. All that talk about taking on a team of Delta Rangers (which is why you need 35+ rounds) is moot when your gun is in the night stand and you're at Hardees wearing shorts and flip flops, unarmed, and your fries get stolen.

Little guns exist because they're effective at what they're made for. If you never need a little gun, good. Don't get one. But don't get all internetz over how bad @$$ you are because you only carry a big gun. ANY gun beats no gun and there are times when you'll be without your big gun.

 

[cedartop]

I agree with BE Mike, big differance in handgun need for a police officer and a private citizen.

Not sure I am following you because that is not how I understood what he wrote. What kind of differences would there need to be between a handgun I carry to defend my life and one a police officer carry's for the same reason? Does mine not need to do as good of a job at stopping a threat? Maybe it doesn't have to be able to be shot as quickly or accurately? Not as reliable?

 

[gglass]

I have carry guns that range from full-sized with 19-rounds of capacity to tiny pocket guns with only 7 rounds at the ready, and a few guns in between these extremes. I have so many to allow myself options for when, where and how I am able to carry... I have not found a one-size-fits-all gun yet.

No matter what I carry, I don't feel outgunned or outmatched due to the gun that I have chosen. As stated earlier by a real LEO, it is highly unlikely that I will find myself in a gun battle pitched against a determined foe with a death-wish brought on by an incarceration allergy. My most likely scenario for needing ultra high capacity firepower is one that pits me against a group of individuals out to do me harm, and if I ever feel that is even a remote possibility I will dress around the correct gun.

The point of my post is simply to say that I think it is more important to have choices when it comes to firepower and capacity. I choose to always have choices... Not limitations.

 

[actaeon277]

I agree with BE Mike, big differance in handgun need for a police officer and a private citizen.

And I never heard anyone state, "gee I brought too many rounds to that fight. I think I'll carry less"

 

[actaeon277]

I see your point OP, however my theory is if you need 35 shots you are either A) a really bad marksman, or B) facing way more people than you could take out before they return fire.

Oh really

https://www.policeone.com/police-he...ne-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/

I agree with BE Mike, big differance in handgun need for a police officer and a private citizen.

For the record, I was responding to the above blanket statement "if you need 35 shots".
Carry what you carry, be good with it whatever you do carry.
Cause if we're going by what you'll "likely" need, we wouldn't carry anything.
I carry a model 19 S&W with two speed strips. So that's not a lot.

In the example above, the officer was neither a bad shot, nor facing a large amount of opponents.

 

[Beowulf]

So, the OP is a uniformed police officer?

If not, that link is irrelevant. When was the last time an armed citizen got into a protracted firefight with a bad guy?
Unless you make a habit of intentionally going into harms way, a single stack with an extra mag or two is more than enough.

Just to prove you wrong...

The Beckwith Incident

That's why I carry a submachine gun at all times

Though seriously, I agree that statistically you don't need to carry a huge amount of ammunition. Sure, you could possibly need, but the odds of needing a gun at all are pretty low. Add on top the odds of needing more than 5 rounds and you are getting into winning the lottery territory for a civilian. But, it's a free country. If you want to carry a Glock 17 with 6 33 round mags. Please do. If you want to carry a single shot black powder derringer, more power to you (and keep that powder dry). Personally, while I have carried full size handguns, I, for the most part, opt for a pocket pistol of one variety or another.

 

[jsharmon7]

This seems to come up periodically. My opinion has always been that a handgun is a compromise in the first place. The level of compromise is all we're talking. To me it's more important to carry a pistol you shoot well, will carry regularly, and can carry extra magazines. I'll be perfectly honest and admit that if my only option was a full-size 1911 there would certainly be times I didn't carry a gun at all. With a smaller gun available though, I will always carry where legal. I certainly wouldn't criticize someone for carrying a full-size 1911 or a 2 shot derringer if they have given it thought and decided that was their best option. Just one opinion...

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Not sure I am following you because that is not how I understood what he wrote. What kind of differences would there need to be between a handgun I carry to defend my life and one a police officer carry's for the same reason? Does mine not need to do as good of a job at stopping a threat? Maybe it doesn't have to be able to be shot as quickly or accurately? Not as reliable?

Intermediate barriers is the biggest difference, IMO. For street robber repellant, I'm fine with a pocket j-frame and wadcutters. For traffic stops, not so much. Auto glass, door panels, etc.

FWIW, the people losing gun fights in random violence situations aren't losing due to shooting ability but due to fighting ability for the most part. Winners see trouble coming early and make a plan then execute. Losers start behind the curve and never catch up. Exceptions exist, but that's the norm.

 

[88E30M50]

And I never heard anyone state, "gee I brought too many rounds to that fight. I think I'll carry less"

It could be that the guy that would have said that was too busy being dead because his flurry of 9mm did not stop the threat that put him down with three rounds of a more effective caliber. In my opinion, I think it's better to shoot quality over quantity.

But, this is not a caliber debate, this is a debate over whether it's best to own only a full size gun that you can take to 90% of the places you go or, own both a full size gun and a concealable gun that lets you carry in 9% of the 10% remaining. It's a personal thing and nobody's wrong (as long as they agree with me ).

 

[Lil Bob]

A lively post, and a slew of varied responses. I have a G19, Shield and a PPS. I carry the G19 and Shield at different times. I am a slender build guy at 165 pounds. I carry the G19 well with a light jacket of some form whether OWB or IWB. I carry the Shield and soon the PPS in warmer weather because I can conceal it much better. I wish I could carry the G19 full time, but I would be to heavily dressed in warm weather to conceal the thing. I respect the OPs opinion as well as everyone else. It boils down to whats works for each individual.

 

[bonkers1919]

You must not have a job where having a pocket gun is your only option. The little gun you have is better than the big one that is at home.

+1, what he said!

I overheard the term "Accuracy by volume" one day at a local LGS. I was carrying a XDm with 19 +1 in the chamber and a spare 19 round magazine. 59 rounds is the definition of "accuracy by volume".

I care more about shot placement with the rounds in the gun rather than the total amount of rounds carried.

 

[VERT]

A person probably won't run out of bullets but time. Never enough time. Extra ammo is simply more time to stay in the fray. Distance is time so work on recognizing threats early. BBI and Cedartop can help with that lesson. Putting a firearm into action takes time and some carry methods are not as fast. Missing is most definitely time. Misses take time and create liability. Don't miss. No such thing as accuracy by volume. If you do carry a single stack sub compact (like I sometimes do) especially under deep concealment keep in mind that time is your enemy.

 

[lovemachine]

Many forget that carrying a smaller gun may be easier to carry, but it's harder to manipulate. There are also several people that have admitted they although they carry the smaller guns, because it's easier, but don't train with it because it's not enjoyable to shoot.

IF you do carry a smaller gun, please train with it.

For me, I have been at different body weights. I have weighed as much as 220lbs, and have weighed as little as 155lbs. I have found that with the right equipment, i.e. belt and holster, I have been able to conceal a Glock 19 just as easy as a Glock 43. But in the summer time, I prefer to carry my Glock 26. I still have 10 rounds, and it's a smaller grip, so it's a tad easier to conceal without wearing a baggy shirt compared to the Glock 19.