Anyone here Open Carry in Indiana?

[indyninja]

so I take it several of you open carry because you want to educate the public. Is that right? I have open carried on the way to the range because its easier for me and I know I won't be making any stops. maybe a trip to the
convenience store but thats all.

 

[Dave]

I think a lot of this has to boil down to where you live. Can you imagine me OCing in Carmel walking through Clay Terrace on a Saturday. Educating people or not I don't want the attention. If you live in certain parts of the state I'm sure this works better and by all means it is your right to do so. For me I just don't need the attention and don't feel like educating people or fielding questions. Also I don't want the Carmel Cops up my ass. I feel fine carrying concealed. To each his own

 

[465guy]

How will we loose this right? I don't take advantage of OC for several reasons

1. I don't want to draw attention to myself

2. I think OC would put me at a tactical disadvantage

3. I want to carry in places where maybe I'm "not supposed to be carrying" and with OC there is no way I could be in those places.

4. Don't want to be a part of a "man with a gun" situation

Are you suggesting in order to keep this right we need to go out once in a while OC to show Indiana it is legal? Is there an effort trying to get rid of open carry in Indiana? Thanks for you post Prometheus

I don't OC much, normally on range days and thats about it. Like most I prefer to keep it concealed and let any potential bad guy be surprised. At the same time a Right not exercised is a Right lost.

 

[Prometheus]

I think a lot of this has to boil down to where you live. Can you imagine me OCing in Carmel walking through Clay Terrace on a Saturday.

I still have to say if the sheeple from chicago can handle it here in NW Indiana (see my previous post bottom of page 2) the good people of Carmel wouldn't handle it any worse

 

[Thickburger]

i don't think there's any more tactical advantage than having someone NOT know you are carrying.

 

[Beau]

i don't think there's any more tactical advantage than having someone NOT know you are carrying.

Other than being more of a deterrent? I'm sure some think differently but in my mind if I were planning to mug someone and saw they were carrying I would find someone else. If I were an armed robber going into a store and saw people in the store carrying I would find a different store.

 

[hkhoosier]

If...............

I were an armed robber and was going into a store or a bank for example and hit the point of no return you would be the first person I take out because I see you have a gun. If you were carrying concealed maybe I wouldn't notice and you would have a chance to take me out.

If I were an armed robber going into a store and saw people in the store carrying I would find a different store.

 

[Beau]

soccermom and her 3 kids at the mall are not there to be educated about carry laws. open carry is for sure an effective method for a quicker draw - by you and someone you don't want drawing your weapon. i'll stick to hiding what i have.

OC does not mean walking up to people and preaching constitutional rights. The education comes when they ask for it. I don't go to the mall to see joe gangbanger walking around with his ass sticking out of his pants, but hey it is his right.

Unfortunately the media and anti-rights groups are fast convincing people that only criminals carry guns. OC is not only a right but it is a way to show people that good guys carry guns as well.

A lot of people don't even know that it is legal to carry a gun. Some of these people would never know until they knew someone who carried. If they see someone openly carry and ask questions they may decide themselves to use their rights. And the more people we have using this right, the more people we have to help in the fight against those who would take our rights away.

It is also a lot more comfortable. Trying to conceal a Glock 21 full size .45 isn't always easy.

 

[hkhoosier]

I take it you have never been to Carmel Indiana

If you can carry with out trouble where you live I respect your town

the good people of Carmel wouldn't handle it any worse

 

[hkhoosier]

You make some good points Beau. Probably not going to change the way I feel about OCing but I respect your opinion.

Unfortunately the media and anti-rights groups are fast convincing people that only criminals carry guns. OC is not only a right but it is a way to show people that good guys carry guns as well.

A lot of people don't even know that it is legal to carry a gun. Some of these people would never know until they knew someone who carried. If they see someone openly carry and ask questions they may decide themselves to use their rights. And the more people we have using this right, the more people we have to help in the fight against those who would take our rights away.

It is also a lot more comfortable. Trying to conceal a Glock 21 full size .45 isn't always easy.

 

[Unoid]

I oc not just to educate... that is more of a byproduct.

OC use to bethe staple of how to carry in the not to recent past. Everyone knew who and what everyone else was carrying. Concealing use to be more of a way to hide your capabilities. But thats all the wild west mentality (Wichita born and raised)

I love the gun laws in our state. If only the entire country were like this.

San Fran outlaws even gun ownership let alone CC (not for long tho) Imagine if a positive carry mentality was introduced. Crime would drop off the charts.

But I would be more scared even with CC there. Liberal are known for getting to emotional. Could shoot me in a rage lol!

 

[Beau]

soccermom and her 3 kids at the mall are not there to be educated about carry laws. open carry is for sure an effective method for a quicker draw - by you and someone you don't want drawing your weapon. i'll stick to hiding what i have.

I take it you have never been to Carmel Indiana

If you can carry with out trouble where you live I respect your town

What kind of trouble do you think you'll get? You make it sound like you would be shot on sight.

 

[hkhoosier]

I would have about 4-5 Carmel Cop cars on scene and it would be a very big hassle for me. Shot on site. No. Pain in the ass. Yes. I will go about my day armed and not worry it. Concealed.

What kind of trouble do you think you'll get? You make it sound like you would be shot on sight.

 

[Beau]

I would have about 4-5 Carmel Cop cars on scene and it would be a very big hassle for me. Shot on site. No. Pain in the ass. Yes. I will go about my day armed and not worry it. Concealed.

Right on. I'll make it a point to OC sometime in Carmel. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[hkhoosier]

open carry = wild west mentality in my mind.

OC use to bethe staple of how to carry in the not to recent past. Everyone knew who and what everyone else was carrying. Concealing use to be more of a way to hide your capabilities. But thats all the wild west mentality (Wichita born and raised)

 

[hkhoosier]

Let us know how it goes

Right on. I'll make it a point to OC sometime in Carmel. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[openindy]

OPEN CARRY VS. CONCEALED CARRY
Revision 1.20


Written By: Garry E. Harvey
Contributing Editors: OpenCarry.org Members​

The purpose of this paper is to examine the two competing points of view within the handgun carry community and consider each one for its merits, both good and bad, from a common sense and logical point of view.

INTRODUCTION​

"AN ARMED SOCIETY IS A POLITE SOCIETY"​

Weapons and firearms in particular have been personified by many in recent decades as being evil and able to impart that evil into anyone who chooses to wield the weapon. In the anti-gun community the only ones who appear to be immune from the gun's evil are those acting under the authority of government. It has been engrained into the minds of millions that ordinary citizens cannot and should not be trusted with the ability to use firearms for protection much less carry them into the public. Anyone who advocates such action is labeled evil, dangerous, or a vigilante. This line of thinking appears to be slowing eroding away as evidenced by the fall of the once prominent and powerful anti-gun lobby. The number of people choosing to carry a weapon for self protection has been growing steadily since the first laws were enacted. The cry of anarchy and blood running in the streets by the anti-gun lobby has proven false. As this has become more and more apparent, no thinks to the main stream media, the average citizen is beginning to change their minds over the issue. Criminals in an armed society know that their actions may garner them instant peril of death should they choose the wrong victim. That old saying still proves to be as true as it ever was, "An armed society is a polite society."

Carrying a pistol has been a part of my daily routine for going on four years. During that time I've taken almost every opportunity to speak with people from each end of the spectrum regarding the issue. Before I ever received my permit I remember part of a conversation I had with a party advocate for the Al Gore campaign in early 2000. Among the issues I posed to her during our conversation was that of Mr. Gore's support of gun control measures. She scoffed at me and snobbishly remarked that we didn't live in the Wild West. At the time I was not as well versed in the issue as I am now and really had no response although with her status I would have had more luck convincing a fence post otherwise. Over the next seven years I made it a point to broach the topic every chance I had with whoever I thought might have an interesting opinion on the matter. I researched the writing of the founding fathers and their predecessors with fervor. I studied the history of gun-control in America from the civil war forward, the rise of anti-gun organizations and those pro-gun organizations who rose in opposition to defend the constitution. Having made my decision as to which side I was on I was surprised at the sometimes hateful opposition to carrying a firearm openly by members of the pro-gun rights community. It is for this reason I have undertaken to write this for everyone within that community. Before I delve into specifics let me state firstly that how one chooses to carry their weapon is their own choice and should not be subjected to harassment from others who disagree with that choice. My purpose is not to hold one method above the other but rather detail the benefits of both and leave it to the reader to decide for his or herself which they prefer.

CONCEALED CARRY​

THE ELEMENT OF SURPRISE​

The most prominent reason given by proponents of carrying concealed is the element of surprise. There are many hypothetical situations which have been posed to prove this point but they all boil down to the CRIMINAL not being aware of the ARMED CITIZEN as anymore of a threat than the UNARMED CITIZEN. The result is that the ARMED CITIZEN may reserve the option to use deadly force until the situation is favorable or not, should the threat cease.

What are the negatives associated with this logic and why is not perfect in all situations? Well, one must first assume they will not be the sole primary target but rather a third party or in a group setting. The element of surprise is quickly rendered null once you are at knife or gunpoint with nothing to distract your attacker. Assuming the attacker becomes distracted sufficiently enough to attempt a weapon draw the victim must consider the risk and added time needed to draw from a concealed location. If all factors are not in the victims favor then the attacker is likely to win as his weapon was already in the ready position.

Another reason given for favoring concealed carry is the fear or perceived risk of the weapon being taken by the CRIMINAL. In one of two versions the CRIMINAL takes the weapon after it has been drawn from the holster and pointed at him. This is commonly shown in movies where the CRIMINAL takes the gun as the ARMED CITIZEN is too afraid to shoot. Unless the attacker is suicidal or the firearm is incapable of firing for some reason, expect to see this situation stay in the movies. The second of the two concerns the CRIMINAL successfully taking the weapon from the holster before the ARMED CITIZEN can react. This has happened to police officers and so it could happen to the ARMED CITIZEN as well but consider this following difference. In all but a minority of cases, the CRIMINAL took the officer's weapon once being confronted by the officer or while being placed under arrest. The act was one of desperation as the reward of escape outweighed the risk of taking the weapon from the officer. Assuming the weapon is properly holstered in a professional manner, the ARMED CITIZEN would only pose a threat to the CRIMINAL within a self-defense situation; the risk to the CRIMINAL would be overwhelming in attempting to steal the weapon as this act would trigger the self defense reaction from the ARMED CITIZEN.

Another less logical reason for not carrying openly is that one does not want to appear to be "looking for trouble." This line of thought seems to have evolved from the anti-gun accusation that everyone who carries a weapon is looking for a fight. The illogical hypothetical given for example tends to go as follows. The CRIMINAL sees the ARMED CITIZEN carrying a weapon and for no logical reason chooses to confront the ARMED CITIZEN and instigate a fight which inevitably ends with the CRIMINAL winning. Upon close scrutiny the reason and the hypothetical posed do not match up. First, why would the CRIMINAL want to fight an armed opponent for no reason? The CRIMINAL would have to lack any kind of judgment, have no fear of death and believe he is the fastest shooter on earth, not to mention invincible to bullets. Finally, how exactly is the ARMED CITIZEN the one "looking for trouble" when the CRIMINAL prompted the confrontation? Was it not the CRIMINAL "looking for trouble" by targeting the ARMED CITIZEN and pushing him into a self defense situation? This line of thinking is similar to accusing a rape victim of wanting to be raped because she was supposedly dressed provocatively.

Although there are other reasons I've been given for carrying concealed the ones discussed have been some of the most prevalent, of the three only two hold some historical basis for concern but the last one falls apart upon a logical evaluation. The real reason for concealment has less to do with a tactical advantage I think and more to do with a social advantage. If the ARMED CITIZEN thinks he would be better served in a temporary social environment to have his weapon concealed then by all means do. An example might be that you're shopping at a local mall owned and operated by big city politically correct hacks that are obviously anti-gun. If you know they'll ask you to leave their property should they become aware of you exercising your rights, it would be understandable to conceal it from their view; that is if you have to shop there. Maybe you're going to church and you don't want to draw attention from the preacher and his sermon. Bottom line, you should conceal when you think it is reasonable and serves a nobler purpose, not because someone pressured you.

THE CASE FOR OPEN CARRY​

BEWARE OF DOG/GUN​

A sign, be it text, picture, or symbol, is something visual which communicates a clear message to the observer. The observer can choose to disregard the sign but nonetheless they are forced to consider the message before proceeding. Examples of signs conveying an important message would be "BEWARE OF DOG", "NO SMOKING", "EMERGENCY EXIT", or the more ominous "DEADLY FORCE AUTHORIZED". Each sign aids the observer in any potential decision making. Of course, the observer may choose to ignore the warning but this choice will be made based on whether the potential reward outweighs the risk.

The case for open carry is simple. I would submit that in much the same way that a sign works, when the ARMED CITIZEN carries his weapon in the open it communicates a clear message to any observer. To an observer who has no intention of causing harm or using illegal force the sign should be meaningless. However, when the CRIMINAL observes this same sign he must reconsider whether the potential reward outweighs the risk. Where the risk was simply being caught or having to physically overpower the UNARMED CITIZEN it now suddenly rises to potentially enduring great pain and death when confronting the ARMED CITIZEN. Do insane or even desperate CRIMINALS exist who would disregard such an obvious sign and follow through with an attack? As with any possibility the answer is YES but even though they exist their actions do not support the opposing view that open carry should be avoided. They can still be potentially stopped by the ARMED CITIZEN once he becomes aware of the CRIMINALS intent to present a lethal threat.

With regard to the element of surprise discussed earlier, open carry actually supersedes the need for surprise. If carrying openly causes the CRIMINAL to avoid you and those around you as his victims then the need for surprise is negated. Your display of an ability to employ deadly force has avoided the confrontation before it even began, avoided the threat to your life and having to actually use your weapon. As the CRIMINAL moves on to easier prey you will likely never be aware it even happened.

CONCLUSION​

THE REAL PROBLEM WITH OPEN CARRY​

What is the real reason some shy from open carry? I believe it to be fear; the anxiety of having to confront someone hostile to their choice to carry a weapon for personal defense. As a pro-carry activist I welcome it but I can understand where a large section of armed citizens do not. Are their times when it is expedient to conceal your sidearm, defiantly? Should you feel ashamed to carry it openly, NO! Hundreds of thousands of people have fought state after state to pass legislation to restore that right which was once only granted at the behest of local law enforcement.

Anti-gun hacks claim to have a right to "feel safe." This non-existent right has been twisted from the right to "be secure in one's person and effects" a right I exercise whenever I carry my weapon. The anti-gun crowd has the twisted perception that the weapon and not the criminal is the threat. They will and have called the police to harass the ARMED CITIZEN; I advise you show your permit and carry on. They may card you as many times as they wish as I long as you know you are legal nothing they do should stop you from carrying openly.

We, the pro-carry citizens, have to stop criticizing each other. We have to stop playing footsy with the politically correct crowd and stick together. Public opinion can be swayed in our favor if we as law abiding citizens can show through open carry that we are safe, caring individuals whose only want is to be able to defend our family and ourselves from needless victimization. Ben Franklin said it best when he explained that "the very fame of our strength and readiness would be a means of discouraging our enemies; for tis a wise and true saying that one sword often keeps the other in the scabbard. The way to secure peace is to be prepared for war. Those who are on the guard and appear ready to receive their adversaries are in much less danger of attack than the secure, the supine, and the negligent."


2007, Garry Harvey. This document may be reproduced with the condition that it be kept in it's entirity and cited accordingly.

 

[Beau]

open carry = wild west mentality in my mind.

One could argue that, concealed carry=criminal, in many minds. Say your shirt came up or you were printing and someone noticed. First thought by someone who noticed? "that guy has a gun and he's hiding it, call the police".

 

[IronHorseman]

Ocassionaly,mostly in hot weather.

 

[IronHorseman]

Click on he link below and type "Open Carry" into the search box

Indiana Glockers - Glock Talk
Address:http://glocktalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=2&f=103